[Continuation of Mr. Tozer’s Letter.]
"AND now I shall answer thy foolish thoughts: Can he not as well read it in thy Books, as have it written on his paper? I tell thee, yes; but I have ends unknown to thee, and unknown to all men, why I ordered these truths to be put upon his paper; because he shall find that every truth is there; and from the truths he shall find, and all shall find, the mystery of the sevenThe man is not good to be alone; and they will find it impossible to stand alone. And this let Tozer deeply discern; then, I tell thee, he may discern, as close as the Serpent pursued the Woman in the Creation, to betray her, so close, I now tell thee, the Serpent is pursuing them. So now let Tozer be like the star that his sister saw, and point out to them the twisting of the Serpent, the way he is working now to deceive; then, I tell thee, if he deeply discerns the whole, he will fulfil his sister’s vision, which I kept back from thee for such a time as this, that he may discern the whole together, and see every truth is on his paper.
"And now I shall tell thee the time that I have fixed for the whole to be cleared up: the following Monday; and they that say they cannot come, let them bide away; I shall not tarry any man’s leisure, if they refuse my appointed time; and let Tozer send thee an answer from Carpenter, whether he meaneth to give up in silence; or whether he meaneth in letter to plead for himself: But no longer than this week do I allow them to fix their minds.
"Let Tozer keep this letter by him, and he will find in the end, every truth is on his paper which will appear hereafter."
Here Joanna was ordered to draw the circle, and sign her name.
The Sealed of the
The Elect precious, Man’s
To inherit the Tree of Life, to be
made Heirs of God and joint Heirs
with Jesus Christ.
"Now I shall answer from what thou hast done: If they will be the Sealed of the Lord, to be made Heirs of God and joint Heirs with Jesus Christ, they must believe and rely on all the words I have spoken to thee, that are now put in Tozer’s paper."
The letter that was sent to Miss Townley, and the accusations Mr. Carpenter brought against me, I was ordered to have copied out on a separate paper; and they that contend against me let them answer it; and explain the meaning of his words, that I do not understand: I can prove myself innocent of every thing laid to my charge, that I do understand; but what I do not, I leave them to explain.
The above taken from Joanna Southcott’s mouth,
and from her Book by me,
In my presence, JANE TOWNLEY.
Monday, the 9th of Sept., was the day fixed for Messrs. Winter, Tozer, Brandon, and Pritchard, Mr. Carpenter’s friends, to meet my friends, Messrs. Wilson, Owen, and Hows. On Sunday evening, Sept. 8, I received a letter from Mr. C. and the six joined with him, beginning in the following manner:
"Our very dear Friend and Spiritual Mother, Grace be unto you, and Peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ!We desire to give thanks unto God always that through you we have been enlivened to the glorious hope of our blessed Lord’s second appearance, to reign without sin unto salvation." But judge my surprise after this introduction to find the purport of their letter was a refusal to the command of the Lord, in these words: "Had permission been given to come undividedly, we should have been there; separately we cannot."
This letter was signed by the Seven. The answer was returned back to them, as they would not come as they were appointed by the Lord, I had nothing to do with them; for they should not come to their own appointment; because this answer was given me before their letter came, as I thought to myself the devil might work that stubbornness in them, to say if they could not all seven come, they would not any of them come; and to my thoughts I had the answer that I sent back.
I then had the following communication given me:
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now, Joanna, I shall answer thee. It was I that worked in thy heart and thoughts to judge what they would do; therefore I gave my strict command, if they refused to obey my commands, and my decrees. I have refused for thee to obey their decrees. And know what I told thee before; instead of being directed by ME they want to direct ME; but they shall find that I am God that will not be directed by man. And now I give thee this direction; and know what I said in my GospelHe that said I go not, and afterwards repented and went, did the will of his father: and now I tell thee this of them, if they are struck with a holy fear that they have disobeyed my commands, and repent and come, the
names that I mentioned to thee, alone by themselves, thou shalt receive them; but if they put it off to a future day, thinking they may come by their own appointment, to their own appointment thou shalt never submit. For I now tell thee, they all will find Satan is working as strong in them, twisting round by every art to betray thee, as ever the devil twisted in the Serpent. Therefore I ordered thee to print the answer to thy pondering thoughts, that was given at Bristol;* because, I tell thee, for such a time as this they were printed; but how couldest thou went to Carpenter’s house, or they be joined with thee, if it had been in print that this trial would be; and the arts would be worked in thy disciples, as it was worked by Satan in mine. What was known to ME I concealed to myself, and did not reveal till the time was at hand; and so, I tell thee, this was concealed in a way and manner none understood. But now, I tell thee, to fulfil the Scriptures every shadow of likeness must appear: and it is thy own familiar friends in whom thou hast trusted, that must seek this evil against thee; for I now tell thee, it is not by an enemy that I could set this type for thee; because, I tell thee, the laws of your nation must be complied with. If the unbelieving clergy, or the bishops, called thee forward, thou art bound to obey, by the laws of your land. And do men vainly suppose I would put such severe threatenings against a man that was never a believer? Then, I tell thee, my threatenings must be harsh and severe, to say the sin was unpardonable to come in thy presence when I forbid. No, I tell thee it was not meant then, though it was spoken then as though it was meant then; but now, I tell thee, is the time that from the believers, if they fall and betray like Judas, this fatal judgment is pronounced against them. So now I bid them all take care what they do, and how
* See the first communication in Mr. Foley’s book, printed in 1804.
they act; for no man can be so void of reason as to believe I meant it to an unbelieving world.Thou dost not believe in Joseph, neither do thy faithful friends; then I ask thee what you must all judge of ME, if I should give a threatening command of your fatal destruction, if you do not obey him? Had an enemy found ME out when I was in the garden of Gethsemane, that never professed to be a believer, but always stood out a strong opposer, he could not be called a betrayer; and so I tell thee of the unbelieving world, they cannot be called betrayers that never were believers. And now I tell thee the manner of my judgments to an unbelieving world are brought on one after the other, to convince them and awaken them, that they may have faith to believe; but their sins are not so great as others that profess faith; because, I tell thee, one is the sin of ignorance, the other is the sin of wilful disobedience. Satan’s sin in betraying the Woman was in knowing the command that I had given her; but if he had not known the command, and used no arts and lies to betray her, then where could his guilt have been? the fault must then have been in the Woman; and so, I tell thee, if through ignorance, not knowing and not believing thou art bound to obey my commands, an enemy should rush into thy presence, my threatenings must be harsh and severe, to threaten him with such fatal destruction. Therefore, I tell thee, no man discerns for what ends the thing was done: no one attempted thee, contrary to my commands, when thou wast in Bristol; but now is the time they are attempting the very thing that I then ordered thee to put in print; but had I ordered thee to do it now, and gave thee such a communication, they might say, as they have already said, it was thy invention and not my command; but now seeing it is done before, and how Satan is working in them to make thee disobey, with proposals contrary to my directions, they must there discern their fate; because, I tell thee,
if such fall away, having light and knowledge, to work thy destruction, they must assuredly work their own; because, I tell thee, they are without excuse: for here is the sin against the Holy Ghost, to sin wilfully, willingly, and knowingly, to make thee disobey my command, as the Serpent did Eve. And now I will tell thee why I ordered them to come to Bristol, and Carpenter with them: it was to shew him plainly, though they were thy most intimate friends, thy most faithful friends, yet thou refusedst to see them, and they expressed no desire of seeing thee. Then how can Carpenter now suppose I shall suffer thee to disobey my commands? or how dare he to propose any directions of his own, when he hath refused mine? Will he dare to assert he is a believer in thy visitation? then it is time for him to tremble! and let him see how many commands I have required of him since this began, and he hath refused them all, and placed directions from himself. I invited him to come, he refused; I forbad him to come, and he offered; and now I forbid him, and pointed out the others, this he hath refused; and they are joined together to disobey every command of mine, and to make every new proposal of their own; then now I ask thee how they will stand? or how these men are good alone that now refuse their helpmate in thee?
"Discern the whole and weigh it deep,
They’ll find ’tis time for all to weep;
For deep’s the Shadow that’s begun,
If sorrow is not found in man,
And true repentance now abound,
They all may tremble at the sound!
To see the men that stand alone;
Refuse the helpmate I did form;
Refuse her for their every good;
They all may tremble at my word;
If in this manner they go on,
They’ll find they cannot stand alone.
So here’s a shadow deep for all;
These men foretell your every fall;
If they don’t hasty now repent,
They’ll find my mind is fully bent
To put them every one to shame,
And in the end they’ll know my name.
I am the MAKER of them all;
Let them not blame the Woman’s fall;
For now, I tell thee, ’tis in man,
To bring her fatal ruin on,
And cast the whole upon your head;
This way the Serpent’s arts are laid.
Another day I’ll tell thee more,
And open every perfect door,
The way all mysteries I’ve work’d round,
For men to tremble at the sound;
But now, I say, if they repent,
The veil from them I’ll surely rend,
And Satan he will feel his doom,
I say, to perish in their room."
Here ended Sunday night, Sept. 8, 1805.
This Communication was ordered to be copied off, before the hour arrived for the friends to meet, and ordered to be given to Mr. Tozer for him to shew it to Mr. C. and his friends. Mr. Tozer came as ordered; but the others refused to obey, though they had said in their letter"In holiness of life, we covet to equal the angels; in obedience, the best proof of our faith, we are determined to run with any seven, or all."
Here they gave their pen the lie, and would not obey in so trifling a thing as to come in the manner they were ordered by the Lord, but placed directions contrary from themselves; so they had better have said, instead of obedience, in disobedience we will outrun any, even with the unbelieving world; but they cannot suppose the angels in heaven disobey the commands of the Lord; that was only done by the fallen angels; and I am sorry to say in this manner they have acted, as Mr. Tozer was the only one of Mr. Carpenter’s friends who obeyed the summons; all the others on my side, that were ordered to come, came. As Mr. Hows had been a stranger to the whole, the letters between Mr. Carpenter and me, and the Communications given on the subject, were read; and after a clear investigation of the whole, they passed their judgment as follows:
Monday, September 9, 1805.
Being called upon by a particular invitation from Joanna Southcott to pass our judgment upon a dispute or disagreement, which exists between Mr. Carpenter and herself, we have therefore heard the different letters read, which passed between the parties; and also the several Communications given to Joanna thereupon; we see that the following conclusions are to be settled and agreed upon by us, as our unanimous judgment upon the evidence produced before us.
In the first place, from the letters that have been read, which passed between Mr. Carpenter and Joanna; it has been clearly proved to us, that the cause of the dispute or disagreement has originated in the conduct of Mr. Carpenter; and that Joanna has at all times tried every means to produce a peace and union between him and herself, as well as between him and other believers, with whom he was at variance.
Agreed to and WILLIAM TOZER
signed by us, WILLIAM OWEN
In the second place, after an attentive hearing of the Communications given to Joanna upon the dispute mentioned in the foregoing resolution, we are unanimous in believing them to be in perfect harmony with all the other Communications through her; and that the whole are given by the Lord; and not only so, but we have been greatly enlightened and strengthened in our faith by the wonderful manner they explain the divine Mission of Joanna. We also pray and earnestly hope that Mr. Carpenter, and his friends who have espoused his cause, will be brought to a very serious consideration of the manner they have gone on, contrary to what we see to be the duty of all true believers, who look for the
redemption of the human race, by joining with the Woman to claim the Promise made in the Creation. We therefore are all of one mind in believing that the Spirit that visits her is from the living God, and upon that account we cannot believe the Spirit that visits Joseph Prescott, which is in opposition to the Communications given to Joanna, to be any other than Satan coming as an angel of light, to try by arts to cause the Woman to disobey the commands of the Lord.
Agreed to and WILLIAM TOZER
signed by us, WILLIAM OWEN
Monday, September 9, 1805.
Mr. Tozer took with him the Communication given on the Sunday, and others that were given concerning Dowland’s teaching, which he took to Mr. Carpenter’s. The Communications were as follows:
The answer of the Spirit to my thoughts concerning the mystery of Mr. Carpenter, Joseph, and Dowland.
"Now I shall tell thee the mystery that confuses thy mind and heart, of Carpenter’s being chosen, and the mystery of Joseph and Dowland. It is to prove the truth of my words, that MAN would as soon have fallen without the WOMAN as with the WOMAN; and that the MAN is not good alone, that this mystery is brought round. And now mark from the Seven that I told thee were from my directions, if they acted according to the characters of the names that were given, and stood stedfast with thee at thy trial, they should be brought forward as Seven to join thy Seven; but now mark their fall; it is by the hands of man, and not the woman, that they are now broken off and separated one from the other. Because, I tell thee, separated one from the other they will surely be; those that judge my words to
be true, it is not good for the man to be alone, the Woman must be our Helpmate, these, I tell thee, will join with thee; but those that judge the man is good alone, I tell thee, will go from thee, and therein find their fall. For now I tell thee and all mankind, for Man’s good the Woman was created, for Man’s good I was born of the Woman, and for Man’s good I shall redeem the Woman; therefore, I tell thee, it is impossible for any man to stand alone in his redemption. But to shew mankind the perfect truth of my words, I tell thee, by Dowland the Seven were mentioned; and by Dowland they were all told never to depart from thee: and let them mark Dowland’s words that are in print; all is on conditions, and on conditions stood the Creation, on conditions stands your redemption. But how could the mysteries be brought round without the Seven being placed by man, standing alone without the woman, as there was no woman to name them in the directions given by Dowland; yet know the thing was acknowledged by thee to be right, if they acted according to their names, and did not depart from thee; but now thou seest how some are departed. Now, I tell thee, this thing unnoticed by thee is to make thy prophecies clear:
But you shall know you’re not the perfect MAN,
Until your BONE be join’d to you again.
"And so I tell thee of every man; if they fall from thee they will find there is no perfection in them, as they have said; and now I tell thee these words must be marked and deeply discerned, when you all assemble together; and let them discern the words before:
Did man assist ME with one single thought,
Or my Ideas rectify in ought
"When I laid the foundation at first, and took the Woman from the bone of Man? and of the Woman I was born, then how can Man stand alone when I come to fulfil my decrees? This I tell thee is impossible for any man to do; and from the Seven being chosen by the man, and some by the woman,
I will shew the signs and the truth of my words in the Creation, that the man is not good alone; nor alone shall he stand; that meaneth he shall not stand as any star upon thy head that departs from thee. Now I tell thee these mysteries must be made clear, of the words I have said unto thee, to point out those words that are before thee; and let them answer from thy prophecies, how they can separate, to stand; for I now tell thee, as an angel of light Satan hath contrived the fall of man; and I tell thee they will fall, if they are not convinced they have been deceived by Satan’s arts through Joseph; for there, I tell thee, is the Stab meant at the Woman; for there has Satan levelled his darts in man. I now tell thee, it is of no use to halt between two opinions any longer; they must leave the one and cleave to the other; for they cannot believe thy visitation from the Lord, if they deeply discern the whole and judge I have preferred an enemy before thee, which, I tell thee, they all must judge, if they believe Joseph’s words are true, and thine false; because I tell thee, there is no room left for man to compare any likeness, when I have repeatedly told thee, whatever likeness may appear to Carpenter and them, the words never came from ME the living Lord, no more than Pharaoh’s magicians came from ME, because they worked some likeness of the miracles I wrought by Moses: but as Moses’ rod destroyed the whole, so they will find I shall put a rod in thy hand to destroy all that come against thee.
"And now I tell thee of Dowland’s book: know I told thee two spirits visited the man, good and bad; and to convince those that mocked my visitation to thee, know I said my angels had warned him by signs and visions, to shew them the end; and know I ordered thee that Carpenter should put in print what is in print; and now I tell thee, weak as all your judgment was, it was I that ordered it to be put in print for such a time as this. The hearts of men are
known to ME, and the events of things are known to ME; now I tell thee, if the command had been given to Carpenter, never to desert thee, but to stand by thee, through any communication I had given to thee, they might fly from it and deny it, as they have denied the others, and not rely upon the words as coming from ME the living Lord; but now it is known to thee, he gave the communication, which I ordered to go in print, as a visitation from ME; for know I told thee, many of the things were from ME that are in print; then how can Carpenter, or any of the seven, expect to have any of the promises made to them, if they desert thee in heart or thought, or in any manner go from thee?
"Conditional all these things, which you do see,
Each must perform the part allotted he." *
Now I tell thee from these words, they never discerned on what conditions the promise stood; and having the names of departed saints, they must discern, from the words spoken in verse, they must have the spirits of these saints to act like them, according to the words that were spoken, before they can say they have any share or lot in the matter; for now I tell thee, however the vision appeared to Dowland, judging it was the spirits of the seven here upon earth, that spoke the words, I tell thee it was the spirits of the saints, whose names were mentioned, and they were bound in that happiness nothing could break; but I tell thee, it is on conditions it stands for the others to act their part here below allotted them, as the others had done, before they can apply the words to themselves; and now appeal to their own consciences, and ask if they can say, any man amongst them, that they experience the truth of the words: I tell thee there is not one of them who can boldly say it is his experience. Now I ask thee where is the man amongst them who can say, he is lost in adoration unto the Lord? +
*See Dowland’s book, page 86.
+ Dowland’s book, page 84
Where is the man who can say, that his joys have with the angels vied?1 Where is the man who can say, he is convinced this union will ever last with his God?2 And where is the man who can say, he finds the sweet returns of peace never more to be gone?3 Where is the man who can say, the Lord hath completed what he wished for?4 And who can say he hath gained the glorious prize?5 Who can say, enough, O Lord, thy joys now overcome me?6 This, I tell thee, cannot be said by any man, till they
11 Dowland’s book, p.
2 Ibid., p. 85.
3 Ibid., p. 85.
4 Ibid., p. 85.
5 Ibid., p. 85.
6 Ibid., p. 85.
are bound with the angels in realms of glory, where no evil can enter; therefore, I tell thee, they must all discern on what conditions they stand, to be able to triumph with the saints, like the words that Dowland gave them; and let them know it is not now their experience, but the experience of saints in glory. Here I have shewed thee that they do not discern what they believe; because, I tell thee, if they did, Dowland’s words would stumble them all, as they do not understand them; and conscience must tell them they do not experience them; but now I tell thee, though Dowland’s visitation hath stumbled many, because he was a sinful man, but let them know Balaam was the same: yet he had true visions shewn him concerning Moab and the children of Israel; and so I tell thee of Dowland, he had many visions shewn him, which are mentioned in his book, that they will find in the end to be true. But now I shall tell thee from his book what they must do, who will come to obtain the promise and blessings that were there spoken by the departed spirits: for I now tell thee, it is not confined to seven, nor seven times seven, but on conditions it stands for all that now obey their calling in my visitation to thee. And now come to his other words:"
‘The time will come that you must own
The Bride before a kingly throne;
Support her in her trying hour,
And fear not any frowns of power;
Confirm her work, lend her thy aid,
Thou sure hast nought to be afraid;
For she is sent of God,
To warn a guilty sinful land,
The dangers that are near at hand,
By some already felt.
Then own her now, be proud that thee
Her champion in the cause must be:
If thou art seal’d by faith divine,
And let it in thy actions shine.’ *
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I tell thee, they do not discern on what conditions the whole stands, nor in what manner the words were spoken; for though the words were spoken to Carpenter, doth he suppose they were spoken to him only? Can he support thy cause alone? I tell thee, no: but know what is said in my Gospel, and what I said to my disciples, What I say unto one I say unto all; and what I said to Dowland, or was spoken by the visitation of my angels, is said unto every believer, they have nothing to fear if they stand bold and confident in my visitation to thee. And now I tell thee, Foley is fulfilling those words more than Carpenter; because, I tell thee, bishops and great men are placed on the kingly thrones; not on the throne as a king, yet they are placed by the king to be as men enthroned in power; and so, thou knowest, they are placed in Parliament. And now mark Foley’s letter; He did not hesitate nor grieve to be called forward; but was bold and confident, and rather rejoiced that he should be called forward to answer for himself in thy cause. Now here, I tell thee, are the words fulfilling as a shadow in Foley; and, I tell thee, will be fulfilled in many; for though the words were spoken to Carpenter, yet, I tell thee, they are meant to every man that stands stedfast by thee; and that they will all find in the end. So now
* See page 31 of Dowland’s book.
if Carpenter be sealed by faith, let him shew it in his actions; but if he do not shew it in his actions, let him not say he is sealed by faith; for what share or lot can he have in the matter, if he departs from thee? But how could I confound him, if the words had been spoken to thee, for thee to bear the testimony of thyself? Here, I tell thee, he would deny it, and those whose faith is wavering in thee would go from it; therefore the words were spoken to Dowland, and ordered to be put in print, to confound them in their own prophet, as they call Dowland a prophet; but I have not placed him as a prophet, but as a man visited by ME to give them communications, which I knew they would not receive from thee. And mark what I have told thee, I would shame all that shame thee, and confound all that confound thee; and now, I tell thee, out of their own mouths will I condemn them, and from Dowland’s words, whom they have justified. Therefore, I tell thee, there is no way Satan can work by arts against thee, but I find a way to confound them: and out of their own mouths will I confound them all, from Dowland’s words, on whom they rely. If they are not sealed by faith they have no share nor lot in the matter, to look forward to their redemption; but if they are sealed by faith, they must shew it in their actions, to stand by thee, and not forsake thee; for now I tell thee, if they forsake thee, they forsake every visitation that came from the Lord to Dowland; because, I tell thee, for thy sake, to shew the end of those that mocked my visitation to thee, and the reward of those that stood in stedfast faith with thee, my visitation to Dowland was; because their hearts were known to ME, that they would rely on him; because they judged every promise was made to them alone; but the promises in thy writings are made in general to all true believers, which they themselves did not discern, if they were faithful in thy calling, the promise stood to them as well as others;
because they are general to all. This, I tell thee, they did not regard; but when they judged promises were confined to them alone, they were ready to embrace them, without discerning these promises stood as general for every man on conditions, as they stood for them. Thou sayest in thy heart, they will not like these general blessings and general promises; but to thy thoughts I shall answer, every promise in my Bible is held out on conditions to every man; and when Saul was chosen and anointed to be king over Israel, when he departed from my commands I rended the kingdom from him, and gave it to David, and anointed him to be king over Israel; and though I made the promise to Eli, and to his house, yet when he departed from ME by a coldness of love, and his sons departed from ME, by their sinful practices, I removed Eli and his sons, and gave the promise unto Samuel. Therefore, I tell thee, as I raised up Samuel instead of Eli and his house, and raised up David instead of Saul, so shall I now raise up men after my own heart, who will fulfil Dowland’s words to stand by thee to the end; and then they will find the power of my Spirit, to rejoice in the God of their salvation, when I have cleared up every mystery by thee; and till that is done thy life will be prolonged; but when thy work is finished thy life will end, and thou wilt see the truth of Dowland’s words"To bask and triumph in the God of grace." *And in thy heart thou sayest it is all thou hast longed for, to burst this prison of clay, and triumph with thy God, with saints and angels, in the glorious realms above; and now I tell thee, this wish would be too eager in thy heart, if I did not keep back the power of my love; for I know all thou hast went through and suffered for my sake. Therefore, I tell thee, it is much better for those who never believed at all, than it is for those who have
* Dowland’s book, page 32.
believed, and now fall back out of pride and vain glory, because they cannot bear my reproof that I have given through thee. But I now tell thee, they do not know Joseph, nor what is in the boy; therefore, I tell thee, whatever words he may give, they will find they cannot rely upon them, but in the end he will deceive them all; for I now tell thee, they are not words that you can rely upon before you have proved the truth from whence they come; and they are the footsteps you must discern, in what manner all is brought round. And now discern how this is brought round: I told thee at Leeds, Dowland was visited by two spirits, good and bad; that Carpenter should use him with tenderness; after thy trial I should point out to thee more clearly of his visitation. Now let them mark, it was unknown to thee what was said in thy favour, or what command was given to them concerning thee. Again let them mark Dowland’s death, before I permitted any of his writings to go in print; and then I ordered these things to be in print; and now I tell thee, there is no man going on more to deny Dowland’s words than the very men who professed to believe them; and I tell thee, if Dowland was living they would be offended with him, if he gave communications that did not please them! For I now tell thee, they must change in heart and mind, before they can receive faithful dealings, to be reproved of their errors. So let not Carpenter say things would be different, if thou wert in his house; for now I tell thee, if it were right for thee to have been in his house, I should have ordered a way to have placed thee there. Then let not Carpenter direct my footsteps; for I now tell thee, in his house it could not be right for thee to be placed; for here thou hast thy mind at liberty, freely to give every Communication, as spoken by ME; but I now tell thee, in Carpenter’s house thou couldest not; and this I tell thee further, faithful dealings they will not bear, reproof they hate; then
how can a prophet of the Lord be placed in his house? This, I tell thee, cannot be, for a prophet of the Lord to be placed where men are wedded to their own humours, full of their own wisdom and understanding; for I tell thee, they will not believe any thing to be from the Lord that is not consistent with their own wisdom, not discerning in the Scriptures of Truth how many things I commanded that were contrary to the wisdom of man, that men might give up their own wisdom, and trust to mine, seeing in the end my wisdom appeareth concealed from man. Therefore, I tell thee, he that will not trust any further than he can see it clear in the beginning, to see it is wisdom like a God, will never be fit to be a prophet, nor to receive a prophet. And now I tell thee of Carpenter, he hath stumbled at every thing, which did not appear to be wisdom to him, without having faith to trust in ME, that my wisdom lay behind, and I should clear it in the end; then how can this be Abraham’s seed, or Abraham’s faith?"
These Communications were carried to Mr. Carpenter and he read them; after that other Communications were given to Mr. Tozer, and he was to read them himself; but Mr. Carpenter would not suffer him to read them; and told him he did not wish to see him again in his house. After this, September 21, Mr. Carpenter sent a letter by his daughter to Miss Townley, to inform me that Joseph had seen a vision; and if we wished to have any information concerning the description of it, it should be given; but as they were all forbid from my house, because they had refused to come when the Lord commanded and invited them, I was ordered not to see any of the family, as they should not come to their own proposals; and her coming provoked me to anger, fearing I might do wrong by letting either Miss Townley or Underwood see her. I forbade them going, as I well knew I was forbid from all the
family; and fearing I might do wrong in receiving the letter, I refused seeing it, before a command was given me; to which I was answered
"Thy anger and fury was worked by ME;and now remember what I told thee before, concerning Tozer: He should no more go to them, before they went to him. And now I tell thee, as Tozer was the only one of Carpenter’s friends that obeyed my Command, thou shalt receive no more letters from them, but through him; neither shall they receive any letters from thee, without going for them to him who obeyed my command. And now I tell thee of the letter that she hath brought thee this day: as this command was not given nor known to any, thou mayest see the letter; because it is brought before the command, and not sent by the post. So in this they think they have obeyed; therefore I will not condemn them."
After these words were given, I received the letter, which I had refused to see before. And in his letter are these words:
‘If their zeal was confined to a wish, that all that is not, and will not, be on the Lord’s side may fall, I would join a hearty Amen.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee to his words.Then he must say Amen to their own destruction; for I have told thee already, and I now tell thee again, greater rebellion was never done to my commands than hath been done by Carpenter and the Six. And now mark the anger that arose in thy spirits, when the letter came, which I told thee, before it was opened, was kindled by ME.Did I not know what it contained? Now mark his letter further."
‘Had a copy of my excommunication been sent to me, I would have read it in my own meeting.’
"Now I shall answer thee from these words. Does Carpenter think to mock ME by his lightness and his lies?
Did I not order thee to write to him the Communication I gave thee concerning the conduct of Joseph and thee, and demanded of him an answer? But did he answer it? did he not refuse to send an answer to my command? Then how dare he say he is ready to obey, if a command was given him of greater consequence, to his own shame and dishonour? Here I have shewed thee one of his lies, why I provoked thy anger and indignation when the letter was brought; another thing I commanded thee to write to Carpenter, to take any friend of his, and thou to take one that had been his friend, to come to thy house and have the letter broken open that he signed to, and every truth to be cleared up. This is another thing I commanded, which Carpenter refused, and said he would not come without a positive command; then I told thee, I gave no command, as he before refused to have him come; but I gave a command to thee for Winter and Tozer, that they should come and see the truth cleared, to judge between him and thee; and Winter promised to obey, as well as Tozer. Here Carpenter again began rebellion, and offered to come when he was refused to come, refusing to obey all my commands, and placing commands and directions from himself. Then I gave thee a strict command, that thou shouldest write to them, that none should come but who were allowed by ME: Winter and Tozer were ordered to come, Brandon and Pritchard were permitted to come, that he might not say I dealt unjustly with him, to refuse his friends. But know their answer, which I tell thee the meaning and sense of is this, though it is not put in the same words;but put down their words, and then I will answer thee the sense and meaning thereof."
‘Had permission been given to come undividedly, we should have been there; separately we cannot.’
"Now I will tell thee the sense of the words: It is as good as to say, if the Lord will stoop to our will,
and our directions, to our will and our directions we are ready to come; but if the Lord will not stoop to us, we will never stoop to him. Here I tell thee, there is no other sense, nor any other meaning they can make of the words. As they call thee a Spiritual Mother, then they must say the directions of the Spirit they would not obey; and out of stubbornness they must confess the thing was done; because it is known to thee and to all, that Carpenter hath frequently visited thy house without them; then why not they without him, unless they set him up as their God, and not ME? And now mark what I said in my Gospel: Mark vii. 13Making the word of God of none effect through your traditionBut for pretence make long prayers, thinking they shall be heard for their much speakingHowbeit in vain do they worship ME, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.And this is the doctrine they are teaching, throwing my command aside; therefore I ordered thee to send the letter concerning prayer, that it is not for their much speaking, nor long prayers, that they are accepted, without obeying my commands; for as I have told thee already, I now tell thee again, they meet together for the worse, and not for the better; therefore I ordered them to make their own closets their places of prayer; and had my commands been obeyed, they would not have given Satan this advantage over them. But now I tell thee, they strain at a gnat and swallow a camel: the easy things that I commanded, with every stubbornness they refuse; and yet profess to say, if I had commanded the greatest thing that could be done to his dishonour, they were ready to obey, and support thee therein. Then now to their words let them stand, and bow with humble submission to see their whole conduct put in print; or else his letter must appear against him, if he would bow so readily and willingly, to have thee come and pronounce against him in a full meeting. Profound
silence he saith should be ensured, with every kindness shewed to thee; he would only have claimed afterwards the indulgence of pleading in his defence. Then now to his words let him be silent, and to my directions given through thee, to lay the whole before the world at large; and then I allow him that indulgence to plead for himself, in answer to thy publications, to the world, and clear himself, if he can.
"And now I tell thee of the vision. It is not for thee to see it, nor have any information from them concerning it; because I have already told thee, and I tell thee again, the vision he speaks of is not of the Lord: they have seen a vain vision, and are full of lying divination, and provoking ME to anger against them. Shall I call them pure, full of the balance of deceitful weight? For I now tell thee, much more they could clear their honour, before God and man, if they had publicly declared they never believed in thy visitation as being from the Lord, than to call thee a Spiritual Mother, and refuse to obey every command of the Spirit. And now I will tell thee why they say thy Communications have been contradictory; because, I tell thee, they themselves have acted contradictorily, and their hearts were known to ME; therefore I told thee in thy Trial, There was an enemy in the camp of Israel: and in the camp he now appeareth. So now let them all judge for themselves, and weigh my answer with his letter, which thou must give to Tozer unsealed; and let him send them word that the letter is at his house, in answer to theirs, if they choose to come for it, either one of the seven or all; but to none else must he deliver it."
Saturday, Sept. 21, 1805.
This letter was given to Mr. Tozer; and he wrote to Mr. Carpenter, saying the letter was at his house, and invited him or any of the seven, to come for it;
but this Mr. C. refused to do; but he met Mr. Tozer a few days after, and gave him a letter, which he brought to me, that will appear in print, with the answer of the Spirit to it.But first I shall insert part of a letter that was sent in March, 1804 to Mr. Sharp, for Mr. Carpenter, wherein it is said
"I say unto Carpenter, as I said unto thee, when thou prayest enter into thy closet, and thy Father that seeth thee in secret shall reward thee openly. And now let Carpenter enter into his closet in prayer, before he meets the people, and let his prayers be to ME in secret, and I will reward him openly: and the same advice let him give to the people, to pray in secret, and be wrestling Jacobs, and they shall be prevailing Israels, if they make their house a house of prayer every man in his closet alone. Let this be his exhortation to the people for the present."
This letter, with a further exhortation in it, was sent him
"How many by their public prayers, of making prayers meetings, only did it to be seen of men; and of men they had their reward; but the Lord looketh to the prayer of the heart."
Now as they had not a licence for their prayer meetings, they were ordered to pray in secret; but the mystery of this letter was concealed from me at that time; though it was explained to me after; and now I see the mystery of the whole: the Lord saw their prayer meetings, and assembling together, were for the worse and not for the better, perfectly as the words were said in the letter, though not spoken to them; and yet I see it was meant to them, which Mr. Carpenter took to himself at that time, and told me he would not have had that letter read in his meeting for a thousand pounds; at which I marvelled; because I could by no means see he was condemned as a hypocrite in the letter; therefore it must be his own conscience that made him take it
to himself, saying many meet together in prayer more to have the praise of men than they do for the glory of God. And this gave him great offence, to have it read before his people, which I greatly marvelled at, not knowing his own conscience condemned him; and now, by their conduct, I see the letter was meant as a reproof to them; because they have proved their hearts were not right with God. And deeply has it been explained to me since, if they had taken the advice, to make their own houses and closets places of prayer, and not meet together to provoke the spirits one of another against their brethren, and then in this manner to join in prayer together, with anger in their hearts, which gave Satan advantage over them; and this was known to the Lord they would do, for which reason they were cautioned before. But let no one understand from this that they were forbid public prayer, when they met in public worship. The particulars of these letters may appear hereafter, with a Communication from the Lord, to unveil the whole mystery, why these letters were sent to Mr. Carpenter, wherein he saith there are contradictions; but all these appearances of contradiction I never understood; but the Lord knew their hearts and the manner of their meetings in prayer, for which reason it was forbid.
But here I shall leave for the present, as I shall not have room in this Book to insert all the letters through; but I shall come to his letter in the first part of the Controversy between him and me, received May 23, 1805, in the 12th page, where he saith my Communications that I have sent him contradict each other, and my reasonings are not trueNow time will make known how true all my reasonings have been; and when the truth of all is made clear, they will find my reasonings true, and his observation false. I desired Mr. Carpenter to send by his friends all my Communications and letters, to point
out to me wherein the contradiction stood; but this he refused; then how can he say things are contradictory without proving where they lie?
I am not ashamed to publish his letter to the world, wherein he saith my Communications are contradictory: and now let him bring forward the Communication wherein he saith the contradictions stand, and I am ready to answer for the letters that are from myself, and the Spirit that gave the Communications will answer for them.
Now I shall give you Mr. Carpenter’s letter to Mr Tozer, with the answer of the Spirit to it. This letter is answered from the beginning to the ending as I was ordered to have it placed.
"Now I shall answer thee of Tozer’s letter, that he brought thee from Carpenter. Now put down the first lines in it."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘A man that’s at variance with himself can no way be competent to reconcile differences with contending parties.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from Carpenter’s words, for out of his own mouth will I condemn him. If he ever was a believer in thy visitation, as he hath professed by his letters, it is he is the man that is at variance with himself; because he is at variance with what he professes to believe. Then now let him own he is not fit to be a judge; for out of his own mouth will I condemn him: He must be at variance with himself, if he was a believer in thy visitation; and if not, he must be a vile hypocrite, as he said. So now let him confess he is by no means fit for a judge, as he is at variance with himself. Then how can he decide the difference between him and thee, and the believers and thee? Here I shall condemn him from the first beginning of his letter. Now go on further."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘Had you been a steady and consistent character, you’d have been enabled to heal the breach.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee again from his words; and out of his own mouth condemn him: for had Carpenter been a steady and consistent character, to believe in thy visitation, as he said, and never went a hair’s breadth from it, as he hath often promised thee he would not, he would soon have been able to have healed this breach, by coming with his friend, as I first proposed, when I ordered thee to write to him to come with any friend he chose; and thou wast to take no man for thy friend but Wilson, who had been his friend. This was the proposal made to Carpenter, to heal the breach; and had he been a steady character in his profession in thy calling, this breach might have been healed by him. And now reflect with thyself how often he hath told thee he would never go a hair’s breadth from thy directions; and now let him call conscience to witness, in what manner he hath kept his word: for now he hath violated the whole, and is gone from every direction and every command I gave thee for him to walk by, to heal the breach. So here, I tell thee, the very things that he condemns Tozer with, Carpenter himself is guilty of; but he cannot lay either of these things to Tozer’s charge, to prove the assertions he hath made against him. And now I shall answer for Tozer from the beginning. Can he prove Tozer divided in himself? I tell thee that is impossible for Carpenter to prove; because Tozer was warned by ME the way he should know the truth, by bringing the paper to thee; and by it, as a steady character, all must own Tozer hath stood; and so I tell thee, as a steady character, let him go on, then he may heal the breach between the believers and thee; as many minds may be now hurt, to see a man, called like Carpenter, now fallen
in this manner, to disown my visitation to thee; that meaneth, the Communications that have been given of late he disowns them as coming from the Lord: and now I have disowned him as any labourer in my vineyard. This may appear a breach amongst the believers, which Tozer may heal, if he follows my commands, to meet the people the same evenings that Carpenter meets his. Then will be seen who are the believers, that come to Tozer to know the truth; and who are the unbelievers, that are carried away with every wind, tossed to and fro like a ship in the storm, without an anchor to fix to. Because, I tell thee, from Dowland and Joseph, they have no anchor to fix to; neither have they a sure foundation to trust to; but let them discern thy visitation from the beginning; the foundation was fixed by the Rock of Ages, to complete at last what I promised at firstThe WOMAN to be a HELPMATE for MAN: and now I tell thee, whoever takes the woman as their helpmate, in this visitation, will find their anchor sure; because I have told them I have fixed it in thee, from my visitation at the first; and whoever is blamed for following the directions given through thee, I have fixed thee to stand the Trial for the whole; but whoever departs from thee, as Carpenter and his six are departed, they stand the Trial for themselves, and have no helpmate to assist them; but will find the truth of my words in the endThey have refused the helpmate I placed in thee, and are departed from thee, and are not good alone.But now I shall answer from Carpenter’s own meaning,that if Tozer had stayed with them in their belief, he might have healed the breach. This is the meaning of Carpenter’s words. Now I tell thee, from his words, the impossibility of that being true will be proved by Harding; because, I tell thee, as a steady character he abides with them, and wrote in Carpenter’s favour; but what breach hath he healed? or what breach hath Winter healed, by being
steady characters to abide with him? I tell thee they have healed none; and had Tozer abided with them, in the same steady manner that Carpenter speaks of, he could no more have healed the breach than he could have made the world at first; because, I tell thee, the breach is broken down in such a rebellious manner by them, that it never will be healed by ME, unless they all do as Tozer hath done,change their minds every man, and be convinced they have acted wrong.But as Carpenter hath said, Tozer might have healed the breach, if he had stood steady with them; then now let him prove his words by having the breach to be healed through Harding; then he hath room to blame Tozer, if he can find a friend amongst those that stand steady with him to heal the breach between him and thee. Now if he cannot find a man among them, or the Six, to do that, he must own his letter is false; because, I tell thee, it never could be done by Tozer, if he had stood with them; for out of his own mouth I should have condemned him, as I have condemned Carpenter. For I now tell thee, as I have told thee before, the devil is working in Carpenter’s heart to be full of rebellion, and trying to make thee disobey the same. And now he hath refused to receive my answer to his letter in the manner I commanded, thou shalt answer no more letters to Carpenter. Let him send by whom he will send, thou shalt receive no letters from him to be answered to him, if he does not send them by Tozer; for I now tell thee, as I have told thee before, I would sooner lay thee in the silent dust than suffer thee to disobey my command, to stoop to Carpenter’s haughty pride.Am I a God to stoop to man, when he hath refused to stoop to ME? I tell thee, No; therefore, I tell thee, he hath said in his letter to Tozer what is impossible for Tozer to have done, to make up the breach if he had abided with them. Had he disobeyed, as they did, I should have forbade him from
the house, as they are forbid; and so I tell thee they would all fall together.And now come to other words in his letter."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘Our hearts has ever been open to you, and our zeal for the cause you have been acquainted with, and the very last time you were at my house you declared you considered me barbarously treated.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now here again out of Carpenter’s own mouth will I condemn him; for if Tozer spoke so greatly as his friend, what excuse hath Carpenter to make for writing him such a letter? Then he must confess he is an enemy to one he calls his friend; because he must call Tozer his friend, in the manner he saith he took his part. How can he make his letter appear consistent one thing with another? and perfectly so is all his conduct, which will appear to men of sense;but the truth of his words I leave Tozer to answer: but thou knowest Tozer told thee it was false; because Carpenter and him disagreed the last time he was there, as Tozer had told him he had signed against him, and also told him and them that they were wrong. But how could Tozer sign against him if he judged him so ill-treated then, and was not convinced where the error lay? Here is the contradiction in Carpenter’s letters, blinded on by Satan’s arts, not discerning what he is doing. And now I ask what cause they were so eagerly engaged in, that was made known to Tozer? These are things must be answered by him.And now come to another part of his letter."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘My only wish is that my conduct should be publicly investigated in the face of open day, before the whole body of sealed.That I might state the motives
from which I have acted, and if after a thorough investigation on both sides, I was found in error in any part, or the whole, I would with great cheerfulness have acknowledged it.This, human laws would give me, and the laws of God cannot be less pure.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from his words. To make a clear investigation into every truth, and lay the whole before the sealed, I have ordered thee to put all in print, that they may be able to judge for themselves between him, thee, and ME; that they may judge of the Spirit, judge of thy conduct, and his conduct, I have ordered the whole to be laid before them in public print.And now come to my GospelKnow I said, the first reproof should be between men alone, in any quarrels or disputes; if they refuse to hear alone, take with thee two or three witnesses; then if they refuse to hear, make it known to the whole church. These have been my directions to thee, according to the directions in my Gospel: and first thou reprovedst him, concerning Joseph, with him and thee alone, at thy house last May; after that thou reprovedst him by the message he sent by his daughter; that reproof he refused to hear; then I ordered thee to have him come and bring a friend with him, and a friend of thine, so to reprove him in the midst of two or three witnesses; but this he refused to hear; I then ordered other of his friends to come forward and clear up the whole; this he refused likewise; and now I have ordered thee to make it public to the whole church. So he cannot say I have directed thee to act contrary to the laws of God or man; but according to my Gospel I have directed the whole; so no just laws are denied him; but he hath refused all, and made laws of his own, that neither the Law nor the Gospel allow. And it is known to thee, I said in the letter I ordered thee to send to Tozer, he was
at liberty to answer for himself, and defend himself in public print, as I have ordered thee.But one thing I caution him of, that he strictly adhere to the truth both from his heart, from his thoughts, and between thee and him; and let him know, whatever deceit he may act with man, he cannot deceive ME in heart nor thought. And now I tell thee, if his heart goes with his pen, to say he will acknowledge where he hath done wrong, he will soon confess he hath been wrong through the whole; but let him know, whatever arts he uses by words to deceive man, he cannot deceive ME the living Lord, whose eye is everywhere, and every heart is open before ME.And now come to his letter further."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘The whole will be found to originate in false notions of me; common justice is denied; and a persecuting spirit let loose; on the cause it will operate;while I feel for its distressed state I enjoy composure for myself.’
"To these words I bid thee answer for thyself."
Now as I am ordered to answer for myself, I affirm to the world, that his words are entirely false, to say it originated from false notions of him; because I did not take any thing from notions, nor any one’s opinion; it was his own letters, affirming his belief in Joseph to be led by the Spirit of God, when I was told by the Spirit, that he was not; and his false accusations against me, to say I wrote by a biased mind, prejudiced by others to give Communications; these false ideas coming from him, accusing me with things I was innocent of, made me answer him in letters from myself in a warm manner. The Communications that were given me were in answer to his own letters, and not in answer to any one’s words; so this part of his letter I will prove to the world to be entirely false; and as to the persecuting spirit, it arose from himself, to persecute me with letters
full of falsehood and deceit, twisted round in an artful manner, as though he were writing to one that could not discern in what manner he wrote. So in this part of his letter he cannot prove the assertion he hath made; for he knows himself, that last May I condemned him from his own letters, and made Underwood read back part of his letters to him; but as he promised every amendment for the future, I bore with his folly, and concealed it from my friends; because I thought, while the Lord bore with him, I must; and it is not his ill treatment of me now that hath broken him off, but his disobeying every command; and every just proposal, the Lord hath made to him, he hath refused. It is this that hath broken him off; then how can a man insinuate to the world that he is pleading for justice, when he hath refused every offer of justice, and artfully pleading justice of his own, that he is more wise, just, and holy, to place justice, than the Spirit that directs me, which he hath allowed himself to be the Spirit of God? Then how dare he to oppose it, and at the same time say, his heart is in my cause, when he is trying to make me disobey, and is now persecuting me, because he cannot; and so his heart is at rest, because he judges my cause will suffer, and thinks, by some artful hand he will establish the cause of Joseph and Dowland? But let him know, he hath broke off from Dowland already; for that is all that was acknowledged to me to be from the Lord, to shew the fatal end of those that mock my visitation; and to shew Carpenter his fall, if he forsook me, which he would not have believed from my visitations; therefore this was shewn to Dowland, and given as a command to them, which they are now departed from. So all the cause they have to support is Joseph’s; and this they are trying to do by a persecuting spirit, to persecute me and my believers, that will not now join with him. In this part of his letter I have answered for myself.
"And now, Joanna, I shall answer for thee. In this thou hast answered the truth, which every one will see in the end.And now come further to his letter."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘My confidence is in God.For his cause I have fought boldly and faithfully; and blessed be his holy name, not without great success. If it is his gracious will I should retire from the field and return to my tent, I pray he may send out other warriors with equal zeal, and greater ability.’
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from these words. He says his trust is in God; but I ask him what God? He says he hath been zealous in my cause; but I ask him what cause? Thou sayest his answer will be in the cause of God; but I ask what cause of God is he so zealous in? If he answers, thy cause, and my visitation to thee; then, I tell thee, his heart must be steady in the cause, and neither Joseph nor Dowland, or any that come against it, would have shook his faith, to make him disobey; and had this been his heart and mind, engaged never to forsake thee, but obeyed the commands given through thee, I would never have forsaken him; but as a warrior he might have went on, and been successful in the cause; but now I tell thee, his heart, that is known to ME, is discovered unto thee; therefore if I cannot gain a more faithful labourer in the vineyard than Carpenter is, I will gain none; for I now tell thee, if he listens to spirits that contradict ME through thee, he must listen to evil spirits, and artful inventions; and, I tell thee, I will never own any man a labourer in my vineyard, that goes from the calling wherewith he was called. He was called as a judge for thee, and when he had judged thy calling of God, I acknowledged him as a servant to make
the truth known; but now he is departed from his calling; then what have I to do with him, to acknowledge him in thy calling, as he is departed from thee? But, I tell thee, had his heart been, like his pen, in my cause, as he professes, then I tell thee, like a warrior he might have went on and gained success; but now let him discern what he hath been warring for; has he not proved he is warring against ME, to bring those that he can gain in open stubbornness and rebellion against ME? So this is the warrior he hath proved; and this is the warrior I shall conquer; and so I tell him, he may return to his tent; for he shall never win the field to fight against ME: but he is the warrior that fights for ME, to join with the Woman, that obeyeth my commands; so now let Carpenter bring forth his weapons of war,
And I shall bring forth mine;
He’ll find ’tis time for him to fear,
The field he must resign.
Now come further in his letter."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘In his divine hands I rest my whole and sole confidence, who is without variableness or shadow of turning; yesterday, to-day, and for ever the same. To conclude, your opportunity of effecting a reconciliation you have missed; and to you again be assured it will not return."
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee further from his words; for out of his own mouth will I still condemn him. He saith I am the same to-day, yesterday, and for ever, in ME is no variableness nor shadow of turning; then why hath he sought out so many inventions, if there be no turning in ME, but I am the same to-day, yesterday, and for ever? Let him know I am the same as when I chose him first as a judge for thee;
and by his acknowledging thy visitation to be from the Lord I acknowledged him as a labourer in my vineyard; so let him look from whence his calling was; then if he turns from thee, I must turn from him, or he must make ME a changeable being. I cannot be the same as when I called him, and acknowledged him through thee, to go out in thy calling, if I acknowledge him now he is departed from it; therefore he must make ME another such as himself, a changeable being, if I acknowledge him through thee, when he is departed from thee, refusing to obey every command that I have given through thee: but, I now tell thee, he shall refuse no more; my invitations and my commands to him are over; he is left to his own will, to act according to his own wisdom; and let him see what his or their wisdom will bring them to. Yet this I tell thee of the sealed people; I do not confine any of them that have been hearers of Carpenter to refuse to hear all he hath got to say for himself; so he may call the whole together and plead his own cause; for I lay no restraint on them, that they shall not go and hear him to judge for themselves; the only restraint I have laid on believers is, not to receive the sacrament from his hands, while he stands in open rebellion against his God, and against the Spirit that he confessed he was called by; for it is through thee he boasts of his calling: and now by rebellion he is gone from thee, then he must make ME a changeable being, if I acknowledge him as a chosen servant in my work, when he is departed from my directions, that I have given through thee. And now I shall come to his observation of Tozer: the time is over of his making reconciliation between the two, is said by Carpenter; then I tell thee, if that time be over, the time is over of any reconciliation ever to be made between him and thee; for I now tell thee, as Tozer obeyed, when they all disobeyed, no reconciliation shall ever be made between Carpenter and thee,
if it be not made by Tozer, without he departs from my commands, as Carpenter and they have done. So here, I tell thee, from his words, if they are true, he and thee are parted for ever, never to be reconciled together in this world: and should he judge being at thy awful trial, that he hath a right then to come and plead for himself, that a reconciliation will then take place, I now tell him it is too late; no reconciliation will take place between him and thee then. So now, I tell thee, it is bad for Carpenter, if his words prove true, which he wrote in Tozer’s letter; because he hath professed himself a believer in my visitation to thee, and is now departed in every stubbornness and idolatry, refusing every just decree of mine, and pleading for justice in a way of his own: so in his own way let him appeal to the public; but let Tozer go on in mine, if he will be the star to rise and shine in Carpenter’s place.Now come to the end of his letter."
Mr. Carpenter’s Letter.
‘Therefore spare yourself the trouble of writing any more;
because it will not be answered.Our claim is to have a common act of
justice done us, namely that which for the cause we have claimed of the
publica fair, open, trial,before the sealed. This is denied
us.Injustice cannot come from God, we therefore will wait the issue
in humble dependence on him, who no doubt in his own good time will develop
the mysterious business to the confusion of some and astonishment of
Till then we remain yours.’
Signed by Mr. Carpenter and the six joined with him.
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from the conclusion of his letter. He that obeyed my command in coming, and obeyed my command in sending to them,
is despised and rejected by them; refused an answer, if I had ordered him to write again; then where is the justice they are boasting? or what cause are they pleading? Not my visitation to thee; because they have denied every command that I have given, and plainly told ME, if I call they will not answer: but let them know from the Scriptures of truth, I will send by whom I will send; no man shall be my director, whom I shall send by; so let them not say justice is denied them; because they themselves have denied justice.
"And now I shall tell thee concerning the sealed. To whose prayer and petition did they sign? and who hath signed their seals? are they signed by Carpenter, or thee? They must all answer, the Sealed People, that are sealed in faith, are a people called by my Spirit, through thee, to be joined with thee, and not to be joined with Carpenter and his six, if they fall off; therefore, I tell thee, the Sealed People have nothing to do with him, if he fall off from thee; and yet, I tell thee, it is my consent for the Sealed to tell him, they are willing to assemble in his meeting, and meet him and hear all he hath to say in his defence. This is a justice I never denied him; and this is a justice I grant them all, to hear what Carpenter can say for himself, without breaking my commands, if they do not attend him at the sacrament; this is all that I have forbidden. And now I shall come to the end, that he saith will be to the confusion of some, and the astonishment of all. True, I tell thee, he will find his words; the end will prove to their confusion, and to the astonishment of every soul that mocks my visitation to the Woman, to plead the Promise made in the Fall, to heal the Woman of her Fall, to cast her betrayer, and bring in Man’s Redemption. This, I tell thee, will end to the confusion of all that began in faith and fell back, and to the astonishment of those who never believed in thy visitation at all. So here, I tell thee, Carpenter will see the truth of his
words in the end turned back upon his own head, as Satan will see the truth of his words turned back upon him, when I make men as gods, to know good from evil; then I shall bring on his head the curse pronounced in the fall."
Here I have given to the public the copy of the letter that Mr. Carpenter wrote Mr. Tozer, and the answer of the Lord to it.
As a Communication is given to me, that all things are open and public before the eyes of the Lord, before angels and devils, they must be made public to the world at large; and I am ordered to publish to the world the private and public enemies of the cause, if it be to the hazard of my life; because it is said to me, in such a cause as this, things that are public before the eyes of the Lord, from whom no secrets are hid, and to whom all hearts are open, and likewise public to angels and devils, I must be a vile hypocrite in the sight of God, if I conceal it from public view, that men may not have an opportunity to judge for themselves; for now is the time men must judge for themselves and have the clear truth laid before them, that they may be clear in judging before they condemn, and that they may be clear to judge of the Spirit that visits me, and be clear in judging their brethren; that they may judge between man and man, the perfect truth must be before the public. Now I have laid before the public in what manner Mr. Tozer was convinced that my calling was from the Lord, by his being ordered to bring the paper to me, and assured the truth should be on it. The Communication given to me, that I was ordered to put on his paper, is in public print, for all men to judge for themselves, how they should have acted in his case. My judgment is, any man that had a spark of grace, or any fear of God before his eyes, would have acted as Mr. Tozer acted; yet from his conduct, acting with conscience according to reason and religion,
you must all discern, from Mr. Carpenter’s letter, which he wrote to him, that his indignation, and of the six brethren joined with him, was kindled against Mr. Tozer. Here appeareth to me the most unjust malice that could be kindled, and shews their perfect enmity against me and my cause, which is said to me cannot come from any but an evil spirit, to be against my cause, that is for the glory of God, the good of mankind, and the destruction of evil: for this is my cause, if it be discerned aright what the visitation of the Lord to me is for; and yet I must own, the conduct of Mr. Carpenter would be a great stumbling-block to me of his being called in this cause, acknowledged in the cause, and supported above any that have been called in the cause; thus I should be at a loss to account for his calling and his falling back, and now to be acknowledged no servant at all. These mysteries cannot be accounted for, if it were not for the Scriptures of Truth, which we may discern, from 1 Samuel ii. 30. How great the Lord had made the promise to the house of Eli may be found in the books of Moses; but from the words in Samuel, when the man of God was sent to him, he again reminds him of the promise the Lord had made to his father and his house, that they should walk before him for ever:But be it far from ME now, saith the Lord unto Eli, by the mouth of the prophet; them that honour ME I will honour, and they that despise ME shall be lightly esteemed. Here we see, from what followed Eli, the covenant of God rests no longer with man than while man abides in covenant with his God: and the Lord said of the children of Israel, after he had made promises to them, and they rebelled against him, the Lord saidHe should change these blessings; and they shall know my breach of trust, saith the Lord. The same we see by Saul: after the Lord had anointed him to be king over Israel, and he had disobeyed the command of the Lord, we find the word of the
Lord came unto Samuel, in the 15th chapter, the 11th verseIt repenteth ME that I have set up Saul to be king; for he is turned back from following ME, and hath not performed my commandments; therefore the Lord said, the kingdom should be rended from him. Now here we see, whatever the Lord chooses a man for, if he will not obey the commands of God, the Lord refuses his own choice in man, and chooses another, as he did by David. Now we may discern, from Solomon, when he departed from the ways of the Lord, though he was the son of David, yet we find in 1 Kings xi. the Lord said he would rend the kingdom from Solomon, and give ten tribes to Jeroboam, whom Solomon had made ruler over all the charge of the house of Joseph; but when Jeroboam was made king, and began to follow other gods, and did not obey the command of the Lord, we find in the 14th chapter, the Lord said he would cut off all the house of Jeroboam. Here we see, from the Scriptures, it is not for a man to say, I was chosen for such and such a thing, or such and such a calling; therefore I must continue in it, let me act as I will. We find the reverse in the Scriptures; they are no longer the chosen of the Lord than they are obedient to his command. Now I shall come to the prophets: when the man of God, that was a prophet, was sent to warn Jeroboam of his destruction, and though he faithfully obeyed, and the Lord shewed the signs by him; yet that very prophet lost his life, and was slain by the lion, because he listened to the voice of the old prophet, that lied unto him. Now if this be the case with a prophet, how fatal must my end be, if I should listen to the voice of any pretended prophet, to act contrary to the directions the Lord hath given me? The Scriptures were written for our learning, for our instruction, and admonition, that by others’ fall we may learn to stand; and know, God is the same to-day, yesterday, and for ever; that as HE punished rebellion
and disobedience in all ages past, and did not screen the disobedience of his prophets, we must know he is the same now; then how careful ought believers to stand to the faith they profess, and not be led away by the errors of others? Now as to Joseph, I never saw any true prophecy of his in my life; and all the teaching that he hath given, Mr. Carpenter’s conduct at present hath given it all the lie; because there is no just man upon earth who can justify Mr. Carpenter’s conduct, first to profess himself a believer in my cause, and to say he hath gone out in the world by a command through me, to support my visitation, and now to turn an enemy against me and my friends, because I would not listen to a lying prophet, as the man of God did, that was slain by the lion: and much more fatal than his my case would have been, if I had listened to the lies that they wanted me to submit to, to rely on Joseph’s words, when I was told they were not from the Lord. These mysteries we can account for in the Scriptures, otherwise they would appear marvellous in men’s eyes, and a stumbling-block to many, if we had not discerned these callings and changes throughout the Scriptures; and we find in the days of our Saviour, many of his followers went back, and walked no more with him; and this, our Saviour tells us, will continue to the end in the flesh; for in the time of temptations many will fall away.But now I shall come to the Sealed People. Let them all consider, to whose Petition and Prayer they signed, to join with hand and heart, and by whom they are sealed; let them know, it is not by any man they are sealed, but by a command given through me, and people are appointed by me to give out the seals that are signed and sealed by me. Now this cannot be done by any man, without my appointment; and by my appointment Mr. Carpenter as well as others, have given out the seals; but now as he has renounced his faith and belief, by all his conduct, he must be,
as he said, a vile hypocrite, a mocker of God, and a deceiver of man, if he offers to seal any more in my name, while he stands with malice against me and my friends, and denying my Communications; for if he denies the last he must deny the whole; for I never was more fearful of acting in any wrong spirit of my own than I have been since this anger was kindled; and there is no man upon earth who can believe my visitation to be from the Lord, without being assured that Mr. Carpenter’s conduct hath provoked the Lord to anger against him; for when my readers have weighed all deep they must be truly convinced, from every stubbornness and rebellion that Mr. Carpenter hath acted in of late, he is no longer worthy to be called a servant in the Lord’s vineyard, unless he returneth like the prodigal son, which I shall be happy to see, for his own sake, his own happiness, and the happiness of those around him; because I fear for them, as well as for him, that many will be led away by his errors, if he continues in them.
After I had written thus far from myself, I was ordered to open my Bible three times; the first was in the 31st chapter of Proverbs: the two last verses I was ordered to have penned:"Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. Give her of the fruits of her hands, and let her own works praise her in the gates." Ezekiel xliv. 10"The Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols, they shall even bear their iniquities." Baruch vi. 44"Whatsoever is done among them is false: how may it then be thought or said that they are gods."
These verses, which I was ordered to pen, I thought simple, as they could not allude to Mr. Carpenter and me; and I was answered in the following manner:
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from these places, that thou hast judged so simple, and marvelled I should direct thy hand to such places as these; but now I shall answer thee from the Scriptures that thou hast opened to. It is a Woman that feareth the Lord shall be praised; and it is thy own works must praise thee in the gates; so trust not to lying wonders, or vain visions of others; because I have told thee, my Spirit is upon thee, to guide and direct thee into every truth; and my directions alone thou must follow; then thy works shall praise thee in the gates. And now I tell thee of those that are gone from thee: they are like the Levites gone astray, and following after other gods to their hurt; therefore, I tell thee, their own iniquities will come upon them; and whatsoever is done among them is false; for I now tell thee, they are full of lying wonders; therefore thou must not be led by them: but know my directions to thee, is to be bound in obedience to ME, and not obey any spirit that visits another, without my command, that thou shalt obey it; for know I have told thee, it is to ME, and ME only, thou art bound to obey, and then thy own works shall praise thee. This I have given thee in answer to the Book that thou art publishing to the world, wherein Carpenter hath tried to make thee listen to Joseph’s teaching; and shewed his anger against Tozer, because he would not listen to their enchantment; for I tell thee, full as false as the idol gods they set up, in the chapter thou openedst to, full as false is all their working; for I have not visited them in the manner they have spoken of; and that they will all find in the end to their own shame, and their own confusion; for I now tell thee, it is full as false of my visitation to Joseph, in the way and manner they are speaking, as Long’s words were false, to say thou didst put the Letter of the Bishop’s Death in the hand of Archdeacon Moore."
And now I shall answer for myself, as to the falseness of that assertion, which I have stated in a letter to the Bishop of Exeter, the purport of which statement was as follows:
A dispute having arisen between Mr. Gooding, mail guard, and Mr. Jones, coach guard; also, concerning my prophecies, Mr. Gooding said he could bring witnesses to prove they were false; and Mr. Jones said he could not. The former offered to lay a wager he could, which Mr. Jones agreed to, and to double the wager against him. The money was put into the hands of a Mr. Bastard; they were to have three friends on each side to decide it; and Mr. Long, the priest-vicar of St. Peter’s Cathedral, Exeter, was one of the witnesses, which Gooding brought against me. One of the false charges, that Mr. Long brought forward, was, that I had predicted the world was going to be at an end: but so far from my saying the world was going to be at an end I have said Christ’s kingdom will be established a thousand years, before that period takes place. The next charge he brought was, that I had put the prediction of Bishop Buller’s death in the hands of Archdeacon Moore, and after he had been dead some months, that I should go to the Archdeacon and tell him my prophecy was come true; and that the Archdeacon said he would not believe it; because he could not read my handwriting. My friends asked Mr. Long who told him so; he said Archdeacon Moore himself, again and again. This being known to my friends to be entirely false, as the letter of the bishop’s death was put in the hands of the Rev. Mr. Pomeroy; and the event followed according to the prediction; and it was never put into Archdeacon Moore’s hands at all; neither did I ever go to the Archdeacon’s in my life to speak to him on the subject; though I have sent him letters concerning the events of the harvest; but not the letter mentioned. This being known to my friends, made them write to the Archdeacon, to know the
truth, and he refused to give an answer; and as he formerly refused to answer me, when I wrote to him myself, I was ordered to write to the bishop, stating the circumstances as here mentioned, to give the Archdeacon an opportunity to clear himself, if Mr. Long had falsely accused him, before I published it to the world; because no false reports must rest upon my head; and I judged Archdeacon Moore to be a gentleman of too much honour to spread such a false report. But as I have received no answer to my letter from the Bishop, neither from the Archdeacon, I am now ordered to put in print the false accusations made against me; to which some may be ready to answer, that they do not think it worth disputing, whether the letter was put in the Archdeacon’s hands, or the Rev. Mr. Pomeroy’s, so as the letter was given to one or the other, and fulfilled. To this I answer, however trifling it may appear to the world, by this false accusation they have used these arts to keep back Jones’s money, and by that means make it appear to the world that my prophecies are false.
THE ANSWER OF THE SPIRIT.
"Now I shall answer thee from this simple thing that I have ordered to go in print, of which I have already told thee, and I now tell thee again, full as false as their saying thou didst put the letter of the Bishop’s Death in Archdeacon Moore’s hand, which was put in the hand of Pomeroy, full as false, I now tell thee, every soul will find Carpenter’s words to be, to say the Truth is in Joseph, and not in thee; and as the money was kept back from Jones, by their false accusations, perfectly so, I now tell thee, the truth is kept back from the people, by the false accusations of Carpenter. It is not from the consequence of the thing that I have ordered it to go in print; but it is for types and shadows, to warn them all, that by false accusations of thy prophecies the world at large will be cheated,
like Jones; and by such arts as they used with him, by such deceitful arts the clergy are trying to cheat their hearers. But I ask them, what they will do in the end, when they see the truth appear? as the truth must now appear to the world at large, that every word they sent thee, which the witnesses brought against thee is entirely false; and by those false accusations it must be known, that Jones’s money was kept back; but will they go on to cheat him by lies, and rob thee of the truth? Here stands a shadow that thou dost not discern, what I have said to thee before, when I told thee of the guard’s being drunk, and the coachman brought thee safely home. Here is a shadow that stands deep for your land, the way these two guards began. But now I shall return to the type, to bring it to Carpenter and thee; for, full as false as their saying thou went to Archdeacon Moore, full as false are Carpenter’s words, and Joseph’s, to say my angels come to visit him in the manner they assert; for I now tell thee, there is no more truth in the one than there is in the other; and all that rely on Joseph’s teaching will be cheated, like Jones; for I now tell thee, there is no difference between the artful working of Satan in the way he worked in them to make them false witnesses, to bring round a false accusation against thee, and the working of Satan in Joseph to bring round a false accusation against thee, to cheat thy friends; because I tell thee, worse than Jones thou and thy friends must be cheated, if you listen to Joseph’s teaching.
"So here’s the type, for it stands deep,
And mark what’s said before
I said the end should make them weep,
And they may stand in fear;
Like Bastard here they all appear,
And every truth keep back;
I tell them all ’tis time to fear,
When I begin to break
In anger strong; I shall go on,
If they go on this way;
The parable that stands before,
I bid them deeply weigh.
So all the truth must now appear,
For ends to thee unknown;
And I shall make them stand in fear,
When every truth is shewn.
So I’ll end here, and say no more,
But all thou must put plain;
For every truth must now appear
The type goes deep for men:
The Bishop, see, I warned he;
But now I warn them all,
False Prophets here do strong appear
And now behold your call;
For in the Spirit now I speak,
As I have spoke before,
And from my Gospel now I’ll break,
So let them all take care!"
I shall here give the readers the particulars concerning the guards, which was a simple shadow in 1796: I was sitting on the coach-box with the coachman; the guard being drunk, he tried to push me off with his feet, as he lay along upon the coach; but the coachman was very careful of me; the guard was so drunk that they were obliged to leave him on the road. Now the type of these two men was placed to the nation at large; and the shepherds were placed to the guard, who tried to push me off; but deeply was it explained of the other’s bringing me safely home; being placed as a shadow that I should see hereafter. And when Mr. Jones began to be a believer, the thing was brought to my remembrance of the carefulness of the one; and it was said
"Now let the Shepherds begin like this guard,
And then happy England I will you reward."
That means, to search into every truth, as Mr. Jones did; but it was said of the other, that the shepherds were drunk, like him that tried to push me off; but he was too drunk to be brought home. Here is a simple shadow begun in 1796; and how the likeness began in the guard, to push me off by false witnesses; so if he is not drunk with liquor, he must be drunk with sin; and Mr. Long the priest-vicar as drunk as him; Bastard the same, for
withholding the money. Here are shadows which stand deep for all that are placed at present with Mr. Carpenter and his false prophets. But let them know, it will not stop there; for know what is said in my writingsat the house of God it would begin; and from the house that was joined together to prove the truth, is the rebellion begun, on Mr. Carpenter’s side; and the false witnesses arose against Mr. Jones and me on the other hand. Here are two shadows that will not be discerned for the present, how deep they both stand, before the substance beginneth to appear. But now let all men mark, the Bishop hath been warned of this, and hath not commanded justice to be done to Jones, that he may not be cheated out of his money by the false testimony of his minister. As they refused justice in things that were spiritual, to search into the truth for the good of mankind, so they have refused in things that are temporal; and now discern from the type the mystery of the whole.
Other letters that have been sent to Mr. Carpenter’s friends, and Communications, will be continued in another Book.
From JOANNA SOUTHCOTT.
To be continued in PART III.
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Last updated 4thDecember 2009