(BOOK 41)

The Continuation of the Controversy with the Seven, Mr. Carpenter and his six friends, wherein the readers will see that all their conduct was foretold, in every step how they would act; but as all these things will come in their place, I shall first begin with the directions that were given to me.

I HAD a Communication given me, Nov. 4, 1805, in the following manner, to send to Mr. Pritchard and Mr. Brandon:

"God is a God of order, and not of confusion; strict justice is in all his ways, and upright dealings in all his goings; that it is for disobedience, refusing every command I required, that Carpenter is cut off, and Winter for joining with him; but as no obedience was required of Brandon and Pritchard, only left to their own wills, they are not cut off in disobedience if they now see their errors and come unto Tozer, for them to see the letters and communications, that I have sent him, to judge for themselves; and then they are at liberty to return their answer to thee, each of them, what is their faith, what is their belief, and by whom they wish to stand or fall. If they say with Carpenter and Joseph, then they are pronounced to be gone with the rest; and let them see their standing in the end; but if they are now convinced, fearing they are wrong, and say, with thee and thy friends they wish to stand to the end; then with thee and thy friends they are at liberty to


stand, if they come out from amongst the others; for I shall put them to their own choice; but if they refuse to answer the letter, or to go to Tozer, as I have commanded, then let them know they are gone in disobedience, as the others are gone; because I have now given a command to Tozer to write, and he must tell them, it is by a command that he writes to them; and as a command from ME they are ordered to come to him, to hear for themselves, and judge for themselves, and return their answer; but if they refuse in silence, then in silence they are gone; for if I call and they will not answer, they shall call but I will not answer; and if they treat ME with a silent contempt, with a silent contempt I shall treat them all, when they make their petitions to ME. So these words Tozer must send in the manner I have ordered him; and they shall know it comes from ME the living Lord, who hath directed all thy ways, and established all thy goings, which is the God of Truth and of Power; but they will find in the end that Carpenter is led on by as lying a spirit, as he was by saying he guided thee out of the field, when it is known to ME and thee he did not."

This is part of the letter that was sent to them; and Mr. Tozer wrote them a letter of invitation to come to his house to see the Communications that I had sent there for them to see; likewise a copy of a letter from Mr. Foley, which he had sent to Mr. Carpenter, saying he was one that led me out of the field and did not see Mr. Carpenter near me.

They did not go to Mr. Tozer’s to hear any thing to judge for themselves; but they sent me the following answer:

In answer to the Communication sent to us, we have only to say in reply,—we believe ourselves to be united together by the Spirit of the Lord,—and that union was sanctioned by your Communication after the last Trial, and commanded to be sealed up till your awful Trial called forward by men.—It appears


to us you have forgot what was in that Communication; we are satisfied we are strictly obeying it.—The Lord does not vary.—Undivided union is our aim, not only with each other but with all the faithful.—Mr. Foley’s letter we have seen; and that Carpenter led you out of the field, we are satisfied of.—

Yours in the work of the Lord,

Nov. 9, 1805. W. BRANDON.

This letter being entirely false, concerning the Communication, as well as Mr. Carpenter’s leading me out of the field, I was ordered to send to them to demand the Communication to be brought forward and proved before the whole what its contents were; and as they had refused the command that was given them, all were broken off together, and they were gone in disobedience, as it was said in the Communication; therefore I sent the following letter to them to demand the Sealed Letter:

To Messrs. Pritchard and Brandon.

Nov. 12, 1805.

I received your letter from Mr. Tozer with astonishment. You say, you believe yourselves united together by the Spirit of the Lord; and that that union was sanctioned by my Communication. If so, how can you answer for your refusal of every command given by the Lord through me? Can men be so void of reason, as to say a Communication was given from the Lord for you to stand in disobedience to the commands of the Lord? and that is the way you are to obtain a reward with the brethren who stand in obedience? This is perfectly like the working of the devil, when he went to Eve in the garden of Eden, telling her, by disobedience they should come to be as gods; and perfectly so is your pleading as to a union. There can be no union to please


the Lord, unless we live in obedience to HIM. If Dowland gave you a Communication that your happiness depended in a union together, and that was all, he must give you a Communication to your own destruction: Korah, Dathan, and Abiram were in union together against Moses, when the Lord destroyed them; and in the same manner were the Jews, who conspired together against Moses; they were in union together before the Lord sent the plague and destroyed them; Ananias and Sapphira were in union together to lie unto God and man, and by that union they were both destroyed; the Jews were in union together, when they clamoured for the Blood of Christ; and they were in union together when they took an oath they would neither eat nor drink till they had slain Paul; and the two Elders were in union together, when they bore false witness against Susanna. So all these evils have been done by union; and now in the same union you have agreed together to bear false witness against me, which I will prove from your letter. As you say this Communication of Dowland was sanctioned by me, I must return you back your own words: it is you have forgotten my Communication; because my Communication told you that it was on conditions you stood, to act according to the names of the saints that he had given you, and to stand with me in obedience till my awful Trial; then it was said you Seven should join my Seven at that time; but if you acted in disobedience, you broke yourselves off, and Dowland’s death was a type for you all. This was the sense of my Communication, which I said to Underwood at that time, after you had heard it read, that neither one of you understood a word you had heard. Now as you have affirmed it was sanctioned by me that the union is what was required, and that union you may place to any mischief and say I sanctioned it, you have called forward your own Trial, and that letter to be broken open, and brought forward in


the presence of witnesses. So now you may call forward all the Seven, and join together in your union to bring the letter forward, and I shall appoint friends to meet you at Mr. Field’s; and I give you liberty to bring forward the other six, that I am informed join with you seven; so you may come together in your union, as false witnesses; but know you cannot act there as you have united together, in false testimony against God and man, by affirming Mr. Carpenter led me out of the field: this is perfectly like the two Elders against Susanna, and like Ananias and Sapphira’s lying to the Holy Ghost. And yet with confidence you are going on to affirm that lie in your letter to me; therefore I now warn you, and command you to come forward and meet Major Eyre, with others of the sealed brethren that I shall appoint, at Mr. Field’s, on Wednesday the 20th of this month, at two o’clock; and bring with you the sealed letter you mention, and I shall appoint Underwood to be present and read her own handwriting before the whole, that you may no longer forge lies in my name, to say I gave you such a Communication, to sanction your disobedience, by being in a union together: then you may do the blackest crimes, and say they were sanctioned by me, that as long as you stood in a union, and you seven were united together in it, you were obeying my Communication. Shocking blasphemy, lying and deceit, to say such Communication was given by me! Now I demand the Communication to be brought forward, as I have told you; and I expect a satisfactory answer to this letter on Friday the 15th at the farthest, that you are ready to come forward, and bring the letter that is sealed up, which you have mentioned; for as you have broken yourselves off from me, that letter must be broken likewise; for we no longer stand together. Now if you come forward by my desire, as I have given you liberty to come, all the Committee together, to have every thing cleared up,


before your friends and mine, and bring the letter with you; then you may say you have done one thing by my desire; but if you refuse, and say you must be called forward by men, by my brethren you will be called forward and hear no more from me, but what you hear in public print, to the shame and confusion of you all; for if I am refused this just request, I shall request of you no more, but leave off my contention in letters with you, as I have with Mr. Carpenter, if you now refuse me.—But this I tell you, the sealed letter is no longer to be kept sealed; because your lies of my Communication now call the letter forward, for the truth of the letter to be proved; and as you stand together as men separated from me, it is with men, and not with me, that you must now stand the Trial. And bring forward all the Communications that you say are contradictory, that every thing may be clearly investigated, and nothing concealed. I expect an answer to this letter to be sent to Mr. Tozer, on Friday, as I have fixed; and if I have none, you will hear from my friends.

This taken from JOANNA SOUTHCOTT’S mouth,
in my presence, JANE TOWNLEY.

Here follows their answer to this letter:

In answer to the first part of your note of the 12th instant,—we must beg leave to say, your astonishment arises, from the want of due consideration.—After your trial, our hearts’ desire was to know, how far our attention to the teaching of Dowland had been consistent with the will of the Lord. Our will, at that time, was given up entirely to God. What we had received through him was of a very mysterious nature, and, in many parts, so obscure, that we could not understand it.—The answer of the Lord through you was, all did not come from the Lord.—That we believed before from our own


observations.—Indeed, the Lord graciously condescended to shew us that through his own Communications, wherein he often had several reproofs for weakness and wandering thoughts; yet there was a well connected and wonderful plan, in which the Seven were called forth as instruments.—This the Lord graciously condescended to sanction in the most clear and satisfactory way, and from that tenderness that ever marks the Lord’s dealings with those who wish to know his blessed will.—We were exhorted to have no concern or doubts, nor even enquire where Dowland might have been in error; it was not for us to know.—God knows our minds, and it is said, "from the sincerity of their hearts their innocence appeareth."—Again, "inasmuch as what they have done, has been done to my honour, they shall be rewarded according to their faith."—In another place, "let them live together as the heart of one man," etc. After the Lord had thus satisfied us, on all we wished to know, we had a strict command, through you, to seal it up until your awful trial.—Which gives the greatest cause for astonishment, we, for refusing every command given under the influence of prejudice against us, or you for giving? This we shall leave to be determined hereafter.—And content ourselves with saying, what we have done in all our refusals, as well as our compliances, has been from real principle of conscience, and firm belief of doing the will of God; and on this ground, as your trial is not yet, we decline opening the sealed Communication, believing it not the will of God it should be.—We never can believe the Lord will say, and authorise his instruments to unsay, on cavilling occasions. Respecting your application of Scripture characters unto us, that moves us not;—it has been done by religious disputants, against each other, in all ages; from that we wish not to imitate.—Your assertions of lies, blasphemy, etc., are easily made; but you will


never be able to substantiate them.—Respecting Carpenter’s leading you out of the field, that we again confirm, and that none but him had hold of your left arm, from the field to the house, we know to be a truth.—And that some that now affect to support you in this mistake, will hereafter upbraid you for it, we believe as much as we exist.—The Communication we refuse to unseal, otherwise than as the Lord hath directed.—But if you have to propose any meeting from Communications for the development of this mysterious business, and effecting a reconciliation, we hold ourselves ready to meet any number of your friends, or all the sealed in a body.—Respecting instruments, our opinion hath invariably been, that the Lord opens their ear to hear,—for us to read,—and if we seek in faith, he will give us discernment to understand, and grace to obey.—Thus we believe the Lord condescends to commune with us through Joseph, answering our prayers.—We believe Joseph a passive instrument;—and if he was to go out of the cause, or become an enemy to it, it would not alter our opinion of what has been given;—neither doth your rage and threats shake our faith, or alter our opinion of the cause, or you as its instrument, otherwise than to convince us, for a wise purpose you are at present permitted to act out of character.—We presume not to judge the Spirit that now communes with you.—Your three books do not shew it hath worked either love or spirituality in your mind.—When blind zeal and prejudice subside, it may work some effects you may not be very well prepared to meet.—Your enquiry or comparison in a former letter, of your seven, considered not they were divided by being with you separately;—some coming to Bristol, and others staying away, etc., cannot apply to our refusal of being separated;—because the avowed object was to separate, and divide us;—therefore we considered it our duty to resist—And we firmly believe God will never suffer


a separation—yet we are not without a precedent of this kind from your seven.—To conclude, Carpenter continues as firm in faith and zeal for the cause as ever, and while he continues so, we resolve on continuing to support him.

We remain yours in the work of the Lord,

To this the rest of the Committee agreed and signed their names.

After receiving this letter, in which they declined bringing forward the sealed letter, making a false representation of the contents; and affirming Mr. Carpenter led me out of the field; because they would give the Spirit that directs me the lie, I was answered that they had lied unto the Holy Ghost, they had lied unto man, and to me; and the enmity was kindled against them, because they had given my God the lie in the Communication; so that in my presence they should never come. And in this manner my friends were ordered to write to them, and demand the sealed letter to be brought forward, and its contents to be proved; for they had brought it to an awful Trial for themselves, by their lightness and their lies; and they had broken themselves off from me, according to the Communication, which I gave them, that if they acted in disobedience, they were gone from me, and Dowland’s death was a type to them all, and so as men dead in faith they are separated from me as they rely wholly on Joseph’s teaching, which is in contradiction with mine. So now as men they stand together, and with men they were to take their trial, to bring forward the letter and prove their assertion of what they said the letter contained. From this Communication my friends were ordered to draw their judgment, and write to them to demand the letter, that no more false misrepresentations might be made concerning it.


Major Eyre was ordered to answer for himself, concerning his leading me out of the field, which he did; and in the clearest manner he wrote the truth and the particulars. The manner of my leaving the field is as clear to my remembrance as though it was this moment; and never hath been from my memory. As soon as the drops of rain came I ceased speaking, and came away; Mr. Carpenter called a hymn, and I left the platform: the Rev. Mr. Foley came with me, and I took his arm with my right hand, and went a few yards with him alone; then Major Eyre came to me and offered me his arm, which I took with my left hand; and by those two I was led out of the field into the garden in safety; and then Mr. Foley left me to go back and seek for Mrs. Foley, and Major Eyre led me through to the house: but this is of no consequence, who went with me from the garden to the house; the dispute is, who led me out of the field, when I was in danger. The readers may enquire to what purpose is this contention of who it was led me out of the field; to this I answer, the thing would be of no consequence worth disputing, neither would it have been disputed if Mr. Carpenter and his friends had not maliciously invented this false report, to give the Spirit that directs me the lie, as soon as they found a Communication was given me in answer to my own thoughts of the Rev. Mr. Foley and Major Eyre’s leading me out of the field. But now their malice is kindled against me, because I had a Communication given me to say Joseph’s was not from the Lord, that was sent to Townley, Sharp, and Wilson; he and his friends have invented this abominable lie to make my Communications false; and they are trying every way to make them appear false, that they may have an opportunity to make Joseph’s appear true; and so they have kept back the sealed letter, because they know it would appear against them, if they brought it forward, and it would prove they have acted according to my Communication, to cut themselves off.


Therefore they have concealed the truth under a false and lying pretence; because the sealed letter was to this purport: The words that were given them were to be sealed up; and if they stood in obedience with me, then those seven should join with my seven, when my awful trial was. But now it is known to all, that by every disobedience they are broken off; and the sealed letter is of no use, only to clear the truth on every side, before my friends and foes; for now they are enemies to me and my friends; so as the enmity is kindled the truth was demanded. Sharp and Wilson were ordered to write each a separate letter to Mr. Carpenter concerning his conduct; and as they had refused to meet the way they were ordered to bring forward the letter, I was ordered to call together as many of the judges and jury and the twenty-four as were in or near London, to pass their judgment on my Communications, and the letter sent from Brandon and Pritchard, and signed by their committee; and as they condemned the Spirit that directs me now, the Communications that had been given me at various times since last May, wherein Mr. Carpenter’s conduct was foretold, if he relied on Joseph’s teaching, were all ordered to be brought forward and read before my friends, that they might be clear in judging that the Spirit which directs me, is in every truth like the former. This they were to be clearly convinced of before they passed their judgment to answer their letter; that they would stand by the latter as by the former; and directions were given to them, to be read as soon as they assembled together as follows:

"Now if Carpenter and his friends repent, and come to the proposals of thy letter, to bring forth the sealed letter, as it was demanded by thee, then let them appear; and let the meeting be as proposed; but if they refuse to bring the letter, and come without it, let not one of them come into the room. So let every name be remembered; and the enquiry be made,


whether they have brought the letter or not: it is the letter that must gain their admittance; without the letter they cannot come to be admitted with thy friends; for my decrees are fixed of Carpenter, if he now refuse the letter to bring it forward at my command. Now I have ordered them to demand it, if he refuses my proposals, I command them all to refuse his, as he stands for ever as forbidden fruit to them: and let them mark what I said before, I would sooner take thee out of the world than suffer thee to comply with his proposals, if he refuses to comply with MINE. Here I have given my answer, for thy friends to walk by."

These directions were read as soon as my friends assembled together; and it was a caution that proved necessary; for soon after they were read, Mr. Carpenter with his friends came to the house, to be admitted with my friends. Some of the friends went down to enquire if he had brought the sealed letter, as commanded; he answered he had not. So they came in mockery and disobedience, thinking to betray my friends to disobey the same; but my friends stood in perfect obedience, and refused them admittance, as they came in disobedience. For Satan thought by arts to work in them to come unaware, and surprise my friends, and so foil the whole, to say all had disobeyed alike; but here his schemes were frustrated by the clear directions given me; and so they came like the foolish virgins, having no oil in their lamps, in disobedience, and were shut out: and as the shadow began the substance will end; for through their disobedience they are entirely shut out from me and my friends.

Now I shall begin with the Communications that have been given to me at different times, and were read before my friends, that they might be clear judges of the truth, that one Spirit guides me through the whole.

I shall begin with a Communication that was given me May 17th, 1805. After the first confusion about


Joseph’s stopping his meeting, and other Communications that contradicted mine. This appeared marvellous in my eyes that I could not fathom the depth of this mystery, and the following Communication was given:

"How could I try Carpenter’s heart? how could I try his faith? how could I try his belief in thee, if I had not put him to the trial? An untried faith is no faith: Carpenter hath had many things to draw him forward, that my kingdom is at hand, from different visitations; but how could I prove his heart, to know he looks to thee for the standard of truth, as the other believers do, if I had not put him to the trial by permitting the youth to be deceived? And now, I tell thee, by this permission comes the trial of Carpenter’s faith; if his faith be strong in thee, that thy visitation is from the Lord, he will give up every spirit, and every visitation, that is contrary to thee; and I now tell thee, this fall will but make his standing the more secure; but if he will be as a reed shaken with the wind, carried away with all he heareth, believing every spirit before he hath tried them, I now tell thee he will fall; for my ways are not as man’s ways, nor my thoughts as man’s thoughts. And I now tell thee and all, it is to prove Carpenter’s faith in thee, that this is permitted: he doth not know thee; and as I have said, no man knows thee; but I the Lord that searcheth the heart and trieth the reins of the children of men, know thy heart and thy thoughts, that to know my will, and obey it, is the full desire of thy heart; and as it is known to ME that Carpenter has been stumbled at many things I have given to thee, because my ends were unknown to him, I have now permitted this to be to prove his heart, and try him, whether his faith is fixed sure or not in my visitation to thee. And how could I prove it in a clearer way than by permitting the youth in whom he trusted to be deceived, that I might know whether he trusts in thee, like the other


believers, or not? This hath been a cause of jealousy amongst many, as he hath doubted thy Communications; but now I shall put him to the trial; and to the trial he is put; a short time will determine his faith, whether it be rooted and grounded strongly in my visitation to thee; for I now tell thee and all men, he that weighs thy visitation with the Bible, and the manner of thy visitation at first, and is jealous of the Spirit that leads thee, must be jealous of every visitation that comes to any one: Let them weigh thy visitation with all others; and let them discern the others. And now I tell thee further of Carpenter: no longer let him halt between two opinions; but let him fix his anchor sure; if he believes the Lord his God hath spoken to thee by the Spirit of Prophecy, then he must know my Spirit is within thee. And now let him come to my Gospel, what I said of being born of the Spirit; and I now tell thee, every man that believes in thy visitation must know and believe that thou art born of the Spirit, and that my Spirit is within thee. And now let it be known unto all men, when thou didst hear the voice of Satan, thou didst hear with thy outward ear; but when thou hearest MY VOICE, it is a SMALL STILL VOICE speaking within. Here is the difference between the two. Now answer for thyself: when thou wast deceived by the powers of darkness, was it by the outward ear, or being spoken within?"

I answer, by the outward ear more powerfully and louder spoken than when I hear the small still voice within; and this happened at my father’s house, when I was there alone by myself, that the Lord permitted Satan to deceive me, to try me, whether I would acknowledge I was deceived; for as I was alone by myself, at my father’s house for a month, no one could have known that Satan came to tell me lies, if I had not acknowledged it myself. One part is in print, and the whole shall be in print, that men may know Satan’s ways and working, and how


soon his footsteps appear, to prove from whence it came: But all his words come to the outward ear, as you hear the words of man.

"Now I shall answer thee. If I permitted Satan to come as an angel of light to try thee, whether thou wouldest follow a wrong spirit, if thou found thyself deceived, what hath Carpenter to marvel that I should permit a wrong spirit to deceive the youth, to try him? for I now tell thee, the doubting heart of Carpenter is known to ME: is not my eye everywhere present? can man hide himself in secret, and I shall not see him? Have I not seen his doubts? and do I not know his heart? because he cannot understand all thy Communications, do I not know that he hath doubted them? When I sent him a command not to spend his time in prayer meetings, without he could meet together to instruct the minds of the people, Carpenter was offended; there he did not know my mind and will, how I disapproved of the company he was daily entertaining, that came on purpose for the loaves and fishes, to be fed at his table, under a pretence to be fed with the word. This was known to ME; therefore I sent to reprove it, which Carpenter took in a wrong light; and would not believe it a command from the Lord; only a thing done through prejudice, what I had done through love, knowing he was filling his house, feeding men at his table, consuming his substance, not to my honour and glory, but to his own hurt; and yet my love was there despised, and not believed by him, that I was grieved to see him so foolishly consuming his substance; therefore I gave thee a Communication to put a stop to the whole, and my love was rejected by him; and so I let him go on from time to time, that time might convince him how foolishly he was spending his money to entertain people, that was neither for my glory, nor their good; therefore I gave thee a Communication to forbid them his house; but no reproof to


Carpenter would convince him; he trusted to his own wisdom; and to his own wisdom I left him; as I well knew he did not rely on any Communication I gave thee that was not consistent with his own wisdom. And now I have put him to the trial, by the words spoken by Joseph, to know whether he relieth on my words, given through thee, or the words given through another. Here is the trial of Carpenter’s faith; and here is my wisdom, to bear with the man, till I have worked all things round to convince him. And now I appeal to his conscience, whether he hath relied on all the Communications that I have given to thee? his conscience must condemn him that he hath not; then which way could I reprove him? which way could I put him to the trial, to know on whom he did depend, if I had not permitted the youth to be deceived? Therefore my wisdom was to send thee unto him, and set the sign before thee from types and shadows, that I might make every thing clear before thee, and clear before all men, that thy visitation is from ME the LIVING LORD. And let no man say he hath left all to follow ME, if he will not follow ME in my SPIRIT, that I have placed in thee. Let them bring forward all the prophecies that have been given to men, and tell ME where there is a clear line for man to walk by, to know the days that are come, to know the end of all things is at hand, to know the fulfilment of my Bible, and have the mysteries explained. Can they prove this as clear by all the prophets that have risen up, as they can prove it by thine? Therefore, I tell thee, if they stumble at thine, they must stumble at the noonday sun."

This Communication clearly opened my eyes, to see the wisdom of the Lord in permitting all that had happened; as it further adds—

"Carpenter’s faith is like a ship in a storm, having no anchor to fix to, by a wavering faith in my visitation to thee; and can he wish the brethren to


all waver in this manner, like himself? Let him call reason to his assistance: suppose they were called forward by the clergy, to give their opinions concerning thy visitation; could they say with a safe conscience they were supporting thy work in the Lord, if they were wavering and doubting in their mind, and halting between two opinions? I tell thee no: such faith will never do to stop the torrent that is in mankind; they must have their anchor fixed, their faith sure; or they can never meet thy AWFUL TRIAL. When thou didst meet with friends and believers, where no storms or tempests arose, a slight faith might do: A ship may sail well in steady winds; but when the storms arise, and tempests blow, different care must be taken, and every landmark must be discerned, how to guard against the storm; a ship of war may go on safely, while she is in peace with her fleet; when she hath no enemy to encounter she wants no strong preparation to guard against her friends; but she wants a strong preparation to guard against her enemies; perfectly so it is with thy trials; the trials that are past, and that which is to come. Hitherto ye have been in a calm; but to meet thy enemies it is in a storm; then which way would they appear, to be like reeds shaken with the wind, in the state that Carpenter is in? what storm could he brave? what torrent could he stop? what tide could he turn, in the state of mind he now is? In this state of mind he would sooner sink in the storm, than with a manly faith and courage be able to go through to stop the torrent. Therefore the lot must fall upon those that are steady believers, or they should never stop the torrent, nor change the tide of men’s minds; for it is well known to ME, this steady and strong faith is not in Carpenter, to rely on all I have spoken by thee; therefore I have foiled him by the youth, as I have told thee, to prove him, and try him, for the faith of the man is known to ME; it is not strong enough to stand thy trial,


before he is convinced of all his errors. And this thing is brought round by ME to shew thee plainly what is in Carpenter: his faith must be stronger, or he must fall off; and the letter that thou sealedst up with the type of him must stand in his stead, to shew how all was foretold. Therefore I ordered thee to go to his house, to hear the words from his own mouth, that he might not say thou goest by hear-say, or any persuasions of others, but from the clear truth thou hearest from him thyself."

These Communications, with others, were given in May, after I went to Mr. Carpenter’s house, that the discord arose between him and me. A few of the lines were taken out concerning his mind being like a ship in a storm, having no anchor to fix to, which were sent to him by Mrs. Wilmot. After that he came to me himself, and said it was false what was said concerning him; for he never was more tranquil in his life. I was then ordered not to send him the Communications, nor to shew them to him, but to keep them to a future day, when time would make all things clear to me concerning him; but these Communications made me hope that time would convince him; as it was said in the Sealed Letter, if he relied on Joseph he would go from me; but if he was convinced Joseph was wrong, and I was right, then he would abide with me, and our contention would go out; but it was not for me to know the end at the time the letter was sealed up. So I bore with him, and used every self-denial, in hopes time would convince him, as I was told a short time would determine it. Here I have given part of the Communications given concerning him in May.

And now I shall come to a simple type and shadow that was placed before me, whereby I should know the end one way or the other concerning Mr. Carpenter.

After the second discord broke out concerning Joseph’s communication, I had sent Mr. Carpenter


a letter, dated July 29, 1805, which appears in the 19th page, First Book of Controversy. August 1st, 1805, I was awaked in the morning with the sound of a bird, as though it was fluttering behind my head; and when I awaked it seemed at the window, and then the noise ceased. I rose up in the bed and looked round the room, to see if any bird was there; but I saw none, nor heard any; and for a long time heard no noise. I thought to myself, am I awaked with a dream, that seemed perfect? and is it in this manner that I have been called, when I have been waked with a Voice? was it a dream, as this appeareth by the bird? for there is no bird in the room. After I sat musing some time with these thoughts, I heard the bird fluttering in the same manner as when it awaked me; I then went out of bed and put down the window shutters; I looked and saw the bird between the shutters and the glass. I hesitated for a moment, whether I should catch it; but thinking with myself, I would not hurt the bird, I put up the sash, and let it fly away. Simple as this may appear, I was ordered to have it penned, and was answered in the following manner:

"Now I shall answer thee from this simple thing. Thou went to bed with thy heart loaded, concerning Carpenter; but I tell thee, he is perfectly like the bird between the glass and the shutters; just so is his mind between Joseph and thee; and now is the time for thee to set him at liberty, one way or the other; and mark the words I told thee before, that he should no longer halt between two opinions: for while his mind is in this confused state, he is like the fluttering bird, and knows not where to fly; because his mind is confined between the two, he is perfectly like the bird; therefore thou must set him at liberty; he shall not be confined between both; thou must tell him he is at liberty to fly where he chooses, to rest on one or the other, Joseph or thee; but no longer to be confined between both; for perfectly


like the glass and the shutters, the one full of darkness, the other full of light, he will find in the end between Joseph and thee. And now as thou hast given the flight to the bird, so thou must give the flight to Carpenter, to go where he chooses; and know from the Sealed Letter, that was made the sign that was set, and every truth that is laid before thee, how he would act; that if he now came to that light, in that light he would walk, and no longer be confined between the two, but will wish to enjoy the perfect light, to know in whom he may believe. Now if he flutters, like the bird that awaked thee, and seeks after the light, as the bird did, he will surely come to thee, and wish to know every truth; but if he refuses and takes the liberty thou hast given him already, that if he believes in Joseph, on Joseph he may rely; then, I tell thee, he is like the bird that is gone from thee, to see him no more. A short time will make the mystery plain before thee; so set thy heart at rest. The type of the bird is placed before thee of Carpenter, to shew thee plainly the words I told thee, he should no longer be confined between the two, but take his choice on which he relies; and now his choice he will take; and his choice he shall take; but no longer stand between the two. And let this be thy fixed resolution, for him to go where he judges the light is, and on that light let him rely; for perfectly as the bird pitched on the tree, so will Carpenter pitch on one or the other; for now, I tell thee, it is time for the daylight to come and discover the truth; then if he stumbleth any longer, he must stumble at the noon-day sun. So do thou set thy heart at rest, and grieve thyself no more concerning him; for thou hast done all that I commanded thee, to give him the perfect light, if he will now walk in the light; and a short time will convince thee, whether he is gone to Joseph or thee. Here I have set every type and every shadow in one likeness, that thou mayest know the perfect truth and heart of Carpenter; because it is impossible for


one man to judge the heart of another; therefore I have set signs before thee, the perfect way thou mayest judge his heart; for if he be like the bird that is flown, and thou seest him no more, he will rely on Joseph’s and Dowland’s words, and not on thine; so to confine him is like confining the bird between the shutter and the glass. Therefore I have set these two types before thee, that thou mayest tell him plainly he shall be fettered no longer between the two; the way is open for his choice. But thou sayest in thy heart, if he is like the bird, that is flown from thee, and thou seest him no more, how canst thou tell him so? But I answer, thou wilt surely hear from him again, to give my final answer to him, if he be not convinced; but if he is convinced, he will wish to come to thee, to see every light, and every truth; and then, I tell thee, in the light and the truth he will abide, if he be not like the bird that is flown from thee, to return no more. And now I shall answer thy other pondering thoughts. When thou awakedst with a noise, seeing no bird in the room, thou judgedst it a dream, and thought to thyself, was it the same when I called thee aloud to awake thee? To thy thoughts I shall answer, perfectly as thou sawest the bird in the room, after he had waked thee with his fluttering, perfectly so was I by thee, when my voice called thee aloud; therefore I tell thee, neither was a dream; for as thou sawest the one to be real, by the bird, so I tell thee was the other real; and so it will prove to all men, that thy calling is from the Lord; and aloud in the end they will see the call as perfectly as thou didst see the bird in thy room. Therefore it will be bad for Carpenter, if he flies from thee; for the Sound of thy MASTER’S FEET is behind thee; and though men draw judgments of their own, to stumble themselves thereby, as they have drawn their judgments from the Bible, yet they will find in the end, it is their own wrong judgment that stumbles them as thy wrong judgment


stumbled thee this morning; because thou awakedst and saw no bird in the room, as thou expectedst to see, and did not immediately hear his sound, thou judgedst in thy heart all was a dream; now perfectly so it is with mankind; they have heard the shadows of what I have told thee, yet all seem to them as a dream; because they do not see the judgments come on in the manner their judgment is drawn: but, like the bird, they will both hear and see again, as thou sawest the bird; and then will many awaken and say they see the truth to be real; and many that have believed, and are now fallen back, as they do not discern in what manner I am going on to fulfil my words, and think they cannot see it clear, and judge like thee, it is a dream; yet as clear as thou sawest the truth that awaked thee, so clear will men awake to see the truth of what I have said unto thee.

"And now I shall come to the Husbandman. It is known to thee, when the seed is sown the blade appeareth first, next the stalk, and the husbandman’s care is to weed the corn before the ear in the wheat appeareth; now perfectly so is my dealing with mankind, to bring on my harvest, as the husbandman acts to bring on his. Then how can man vainly suppose I shall begin and end at once? I said I had begun, and I would make an end; and I said I had begun, and I would go on; perfectly so I am going on, as I have begun to sow my seed, and I have begun to weed the ground: and mark the words I said before—

"That like a Husbandman I’ll now appear,
I’ll burn the Weeds, and leave the fallows bare;
And as a man of war I’ll surely be,
I’ll leave no foe, without a Victory."

"And, like a husbandman, I have told thee I have begun to sow my seed in different grounds; I began to prepare my ground in thee, and in thee I sowed my seed; but when the increase began to appear,


know I prepared other ground, that I might have an increase thereby; I mean by my word, like the husbandman’s seed. And now thou seest in what different grounds the seeds appear, like the ground of a husbandman, some fuller of weeds than others; perfectly so is the heart of man, where the word is fallen; and like the ways of a husbandman before his harvest, so are my ways before MY HARVEST comes, and thy Life ends; so like the husbandman, when the weeds appear, to pluck them out, so is my dealing with men. And now is the time to weed the corn, that I may have it clean to the harvest. That ground that will bear weeding I shall weed it with my word, and with my reproof, where I see the weeds to spring; but that ground that is like a part of thy Brother’s, overrun with weeds, I shall leave it, as thy brother did;* but that ground which will bear weeding I shall pluck the weeds, that I may secure my wheat. And now, I tell thee this of Carpenter: the letter that thou hast sent to him will try the man, whether he can bear weeding or not; but if his heart be like the ground overrun with weeds, thou wilt find he will resent thy letter, and be offended at his reproof; and if he be offended thou must leave him; for then the weeds are too many there sown by the enemy, that thou canst not cleanse the ground of his heart, without thou pluckest up the wheat together; therefore if he resents thy letter, thou must resent likewise; but if he comes to have a clear explanation, and acknowledges his fault, then I shall tell thee how to pluck the weeds, that he may appear like corn when my harvest is come. No man hath discerned the manner of my Visitation to thee, or how thy AWFUL TRIAL will be like a HARVEST unto

* This alludes to a field of wheat, one part of which was very clean; but there was another part of it, which was fuill of weeds, and scarcely any blades of wheat appearing, that my brother thought it not worth weeding.


the BELIEVERS; therefore the corn must be prepared in a strength of faith to be able to stand the harvest day. And so I have shewed thee of Carpenter, by what signs thou wilt know whether he is as corn prepared for the harvest, that will bear the weeds to be plucked out. The same I tell thee of Childs; the letter thou hast sent him, and the letter I have ordered thee to send him, will try his heart, whether he will bear the weeds to be plucked out, and become a new man, or whether he will not; but if not, no longer let him have the Books committed to his care: for now is come the weeding time to pluck out the weeds of unbelief, or disobeying my commands; and they that will bear weeding, and stand in faith, will be fit men for my Harvest, when thy AWFUL TRIAL is come. Where there are no weeds there are none to pluck; if the ground of their hearts be good, and the weeds do spring to choke the growth, they will bear to have them plucked out. And now let them discern my Gospel: know they must be labourers in the Vineyard before the harvest is come, that they may be faithful servants to enter into the joy of their Lord; but how can I say they have been faithful in a few things, I will make them rulers over many things, if they had no trial of their faith, whether they would be faithful labourers or not, without a trial? My Gospel could not be fulfilled. And now, like the husbandman, I am going on to prepare the ground of men’s hearts for my Harvest; then happy, yea thrice happy will all those be who are prepared for the harvest-field;—but I know there are many that are not gathered into the Vineyard yet, that will prove more faithful labourers, and more firm believers, than many of those that have professed to be believers; for many have come in thinking they shall have a present reward, not considering my Gospel—it is the end brings the reward, and not the beginning. What reward hath the husbandman, when he is ploughing his ground, and sowing his seed?


All then seemeth lost, and the seed buried down, if you do not look forward to the harvest; perfectly so are my ways: all in the beginning seemeth labour lost, without any reward to man. Mark my beginning with Moses, and Pharaoh; how long Pharaoh contended at first, and my labour seemed lost with Moses, as I did not immediately free the children of Israel. So, if you trace my Bible through, you will see all my ways in the beginning like the husbandman’s seed, and seem buried down at first, not seeing the fruits of their labour; therefore many are come that fall away, because they never discerned my ways, nor footsteps, in what manner I bring things round; but many think to reap as soon as they sow; but the true husbandman knows he must wait till his appointed time; and so, I tell thee, are true believers; they will wait till the harvest for their reward."

To understand the truth of this Communication you must discern the letter I have mentioned already; then you must discern my answer to Mr. Carpenter, the 13th August, in the 26th page, in which I invited him to come and judge for himself, and have the letter broken open, which he signed to in May; then you must discern his answer in the 34th page, by which he refused to come. This answer I received August 21st. So the readers must discern in what manner the letters passed between Mr. Carpenter and me, before they can understand the sense of the Communication; and I have never seen him since; and my invitations he refused; so all came as the type was set; and many other types were set before me, as signs, whereby I should know his heart, whether he was a true believer in my Visitation, fit to stand my awful Trial. And now I shall come to another sign that was set from a simple dream and vision. On the 6th August I dreamt I kicked a coal of fire with my foot, and it awaked me; it ascended upward and appeared like a round ball


of fire, nearly as high as the tester of the bed, and seemed to come down in streams like fire from round the ball, and sparkled abroad at the bottom like a rocket; it fell down upon the floor, and seemed to cover a large place, and looked like fire to appearance, and continued for a long time. This Vision I saw perfectly awake, and should have feared the fire, if I had not known it was a Vision, as I had seen before of Candles, which was printed in my First Book of Prophecies, Strange Effects of Faith, seen in 1794, which was more wonderful than the Vision of the Ball of Fire. But from this Vision I had another type set before me, concerning Mr. Carpenter as follows:

"Now I shall answer thee of the Vision of fire. If Carpenter be convinced of his errors, the fire will kindle more strong in him, to support thy cause than ever; because he will discern where the fire of my Love is placed, and where the sparks were first kindled; and for what ends thy Visitation is, which was never deeply discerned by him; therefore he hath placed the whole together without discerning the difference; but if he now discerns the difference, the fire of love, that was never in Carpenter, will now be kindled; if he discerns the depth of the whole, then the streams of fire will fall for thee; that meaneth, like a fire will be his zeal on the one hand; but, now I tell thee, on the other, if the fire be kindled to anger against thee, it will burn strong against thee in him; and a short time will convince thee what Carpenter is.

"And now I shall come to thy Books. If thou findest him the Starting Horse, that started at every thing, till thou left him, his starting is now over with thee; for he will never go through to thy awful Trial; but on the other hand, if he be the doubting Thomas, then now he will be clear, and doubt no more; one of the two thou wilt find him to be: and I have permitted this discord to arise to


prove and try the man to the bottom, that you may see what is in him to be discovered to you all, what his mind and heart be concerning thee. I have a way that no man discerns, to fulfil my own words, to try and prove the heart of man. So here I have set another line before thee, to make all things plain before thee: if he owns he is convinced thou hast nothing to fear from him; for then it will be a true fire of love and zeal on the one hand; but if he be not truly convinced, a fiery indignation will arise in his heart on the other. Here I have set the types before thee, and the way thou shalt know whether thou canst depend on him or not; for he will no longer deceive thee, but now appear in his true colours. I shall answer thee another day, when thou hast received his answer to thy letter."

This Communication was given to me in answer to my pondering thoughts, whether he would go on to deceive me, as he did in May; and whether he was the doubting Thomas mentioned in my writings; to which I was answered, I should know by his conduct. The next letter I received was full of indignation against my friends, and upbraiding me for giving wrong Communications. So here you may see, from types and shadows, the way the Lord placed every truth before me; but some readers may be ready to say, why had not the Lord told me perfectly how he would have acted, without placing it to two ways, that I might be flattered with hopes he might be convinced? To this I answer, in it I see the unbounded wisdom of God, beyond the simple heads of men. What did our Saviour say to his disciples? I have many things to tell you; but ye cannot bear them now. How could I have bore to contend with him in letters? or offer to see him as I was ordered to propose, if his mind and heart had clearly been made known to me, which way the fire would have burned? that he would end my bitter enemy? The letter that is


sealed stands two ways, like these Communications; and it is said at the end, it was not for me to know, at that time, which way the end would be. This was in May; but how could I have seen him, or converse with him afterwards, if I had been told which way it would end? Besides, there is another reason strongly assigned to me: our own hearts could not be tried and proved, whether I should be in prayer for the man, that he might be convinced that the Lord would open the eyes of his understanding, and bring him to a right judgment; that he might not provoke the Lord to anger against him; and that the subtleties of Satan might not deceive him. Thus my own heart could not be proved and tried to be in earnest prayer for him, if I had known his heart too soon; but now I may say, remember, O Lord, how I have prayed for him; and now he diggeth a pit for my soul. But I see the wisdom of the Lord in placing things two ways, that we may live in hopes till the end, and then we shall see the wisdom of the Lord, that concealed the end. I could not have justified my own conscience before God and man, as I now can, if I had known the perfect way the end would come between him and me in the beginning; for I could never play the hypocrite, to be his friend, if I had known his heart, what he would turn out against me; therefore in this I see wisdom to conceal from me which way it would be, which makes my conscience clear, from private prayers and public conduct, that return in peace to my own breast.

And now I shall give another Communication, that was given August 15, 1805, concerning Haman and Mordecai.

"Now I tell thee of Mordecai and Haman. The type of Haman is in the devil; but he works in the hearts of men to swell their pride, as he worked in the hearts of the Jews, that they should not receive a Saviour, who came so mean and low amongst them;


perfectly so is the state of men now; the pride of their hearts swelleth too great; Satan works hard upon them, that they may not receive the VISITATION OF THE LORD through the hands of a simple Woman, to claim the Promise made her at first. This is the pride of man; but the pride of man must be humbled, before Satan’s power can be destroyed; because it is by the Promise made to the Woman, that your deliverance must come; and as the type of Haman is the devil, so the type of Mordecai is man; and the pride of man must be humbled, to rely on the Promise made to the Woman, as Mordecai’s was, to make his petition to Esther for the deliverance of the people; and so must the pride of men be humbled to make their petition, that they may share the Promise made to the Woman in the Fall, before Satan’s power can be destroyed; then as Mordecai was exalted in the end, so will men be exalted when they are made heirs of GOD, and joint-heirs with the SON, and my delight to be with the sons of men, to make them kings and priests unto ME, when every heart is humbled, as Mordecai’s was; for know what I said in my Gospel—What I say unto one I say unto all that do in this manner humble themselves. There are many Mordecais whose pride is already humbled by the proud Hamans of your land; for the powers of darkness swell men’s pride, that they may not stoop to the Promise made in the Fall. So now I tell thee of Carpenter, if he will be a Mordecai, his pride must be humbled, or he stands with the proud Hamans; for Satan is working strongly amongst the believers, to be like Zebedee’s sons—Who shall be greatest; and this pride must be humbled in men, every man to submit, as I have placed them: and know what I said in my Gospel—None is before nor after another; none is greater or less than another; for in the end every humble mind shall be exalted, that is a faithful labourer in my Vineyard; they shall be entered into


the joy of their Lord. This is the promise I have made them in my Gospel; but there can be no harmony, love, or unity, while pride swells the heart, to be one above another: and this hath been an error in Carpenter; they have set him up too high, and made him judge he was more than man; therefore his pride must be humbled, before he can be fit for my calling; for if his pride be not humbled he cannot remain a branch in the vine; therefore he must bear cleansing, and be purged from this dross, or be as a branch that is cast out of the vine. For I now tell thee, the words that were given to him from Joseph were from the devil, to swell his pride; and should I feed the pride of man in this manner, as he supposes, Satan would soon gain advantage over all; because, if I say it of him, I must say it of all men that are zealous in this cause; and zealous in this cause there are many greater than him; for the hearts of all men are known to ME. Then can Carpenter vainly suppose I have raised up one, and cast down another, to set him up above all his brethren? Then let him tell ME what he judges of ME, or what he judges of my love to mankind? Did I not reprove the sons of Zebedee, when they asked to be the greatest? And know what I have said to thee, it was by pride to be the greatest that the rebellion began in Heaven: and can men vainly suppose I shall set them up in this manner here upon earth? Know what I said in my Gospel—Watch and pray that ye enter not into temptations: How different was my caution to my disciples!

"And now I shall come to thy Prophecies. It is impossible for man to halt between two opinions; if he weighs thy calling deeply he must believe thy visitation is so strong from the Lord, to fulfil the Promise I made in the Fall, and fulfil the Scriptures I have pointed out, that no prophet can arise against thee; or he must believe every line of thy Prophecies to be false. Let them mark from the Scriptures, where I have


placed thee from the Prophets, from my own words in the Gospel, and from the visions of John. So if they believe thy Visitation to be of God, then they must believe the Scriptures that I have pointed out; then how can Carpenter believe any prophecies that rise up in contradiction to thine? So if he discerns deeply he must discern that thou art the landmark for Men to walk by, or he must throw all thine aside: and then he will be like the Captain that thought to go before the other, and so split against the rock.* For I now tell thee, if Carpenter, or any man living, points out prophecies a different way than I have pointed them out to thee, and think to get before the other believers by any new plan of their own, their fall will be like the Captain’s, who split against the rock; and they will return like the Horse that went home without the Rider;+ perfectly so I say to men, MY SPIRIT will leave them, if they grow too headstrong to be guided by my directions through thee."

Here is another Communication, which was given me to point out the errors and wrong teaching of Joseph, to exalt Carpenter more than man with pride, to say his heart was "good and pure," which his conduct must now prove to the world is quite the reverse, when they see his malicious letters, which may appear hereafter, that he wrote against his brethren, for obeying the commands of the Lord, and refusing him admittance, as they were ordered, when he and his committee came in disobedience.

Here I shall give another Communication, given September 14, concerning Jacob’s sons. As it was explained to me in the Warning to the World, that as Joseph said he stood in God’s stead, to forgive his brethren, who sold him into Egypt, so the Lord now stands like Joseph, to forgive all them that turn unto him.—

"Know I compared Joseph not in man but in myself; and all the true believers in my Visitation to thee I have placed as the seed of Joseph: then let them discern, from my Spirit’s visiting thee, every one that seeks against thee is like the Sons of Jacob against Joseph; because I have told thee I am the Spirit that visits thee; and whosoever is against thee, and thy visitation, is against ME, as Jacob’s Sons were against Joseph: and like Jacob’s Sons, Carpenter and his Six are united together against thee, and against the Communications that I have given thee. So here stand the Sons of Jacob, conspiring together against their brother Joseph: because I have told thee, in the SPIRIT visiting thee, I stand in Joseph’s stead; and all thy true believers I have compared with Joseph’s seed. And now it must be known unto all men, the likeness of Jacob’s Sons who have conspired together in Carpenter’s house against MY SPIRIT that visits thee, and against his brethren that are joined with thee,

* See: Strange Effects of Faith, Book V, page 68
+ See: Second Book of Letters, page 68


as the seed of Joseph. And, now I will tell thee why I compare them to Jacob’s Sons; because they profess themselves to be believers in my Visitation to thee; and yet thou knowest their anger is kindled against thee, because I said, all that is to be depended upon must come to thee, and through thee, to be acknowledged by thee, as a Visitation from the Lord. Here thou standest like Joseph’s dreams, to be despised by these Sons of Jacob, judging they shall be promoted to honour, if they can destroy thee; but know I have said in all my Visitation to thee, it is at MY SCEPTRE all must bow, acknowledging ME the PRINCE and the SAVIOUR, that no single character in Man can be exalted; but the general blessings pronounced to all according to the promises that were made to Isaac, that in his seed all the families of the earth should be blessed; and these are the general blessings for man; then know, when this is fulfilled, I must be the ISAAC, and those that are born of MY SPIRIT must be MY SEED.


And so I have said of Joseph—I AM THE JOSEPH that was envied by my brethren, and it is MY SEED must come to inherit the Promise:—because, I tell thee, these things were never yet fulfilled in men, to have their children possess the promises that were made; neither was it fulfilled to David; but know, in the end, when I come to fulfil the whole, it is I that must stand in these Men; that meaneth, it is MY SPIRIT must come to claim the Promise that was made to their seed, which meaneth the seed of the faithful. But was this Visitation to come to Man, they might place that Man to all these characters; therefore it was never my wisdom to reveal all things to Man, when I come in the Spirit to reveal the mysteries of the whole; because no Man shall rob ME of my Honour that is due to my Name alone; therefore I have chosen a WOMAN to be your helpmate, taken from MAN—that she may take from Man the honour he attributes to himself, to place to the creature what is due alone to his CREATOR. And now let them discern from Man, could Isaac, or Jacob, make their offsprings and their children walk before ME with a perfect and upright heart? In thy heart thou answerest, no. And the same I say of David; then know, to fulfil these promises, it is I that must come in Might, Majesty, and Power, to destroy all the works of the devil, and fulfil the promises made to these men. As they had not power to restrain their children from evil, then know the power must be in ME, to stand in all these Men, to destroy the Evil that I hate, and establish the GOOD that I love. So let no man take upon himself a character that is written in the Scriptures, where the promise is made great to his posterity, without he hath power to make his posterity walk before ME with a perfect and upright heart, to obtain the blessings and promises that were made. This thou sayest is impossible for man to accomplish; then let them know the fulfilment of these characters must come from ME the Living Lord,


who have power to command my children to walk before me for ever; but my power must be first seen to destroy all the works of the devil, and then establish my Kingdom in righteousness and peace, and pour out my Spirit on all my seed that remain. Then they will see who is the Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, where every promise stood. Here I have shewed thee that these characters cannot be fulfilled by man; and now let Carpenter discern how he stands with his men against my Spirit’s visiting thee, against my commands, and against my brethren; but how can he place himself as a Joseph, not discerning Joseph stood alone? He stands as seven united together against my Spirit; then let him answer, how he is the Joseph. But he shall find, it is the Spirit that visits thee that I have compared to the Joseph, as standing alone; and he shall find thy anger was heated by ME to return the answer thou sentest him, when he so unjustly judged thee. Therefore he will find he is no Joseph: but they are complete pictures of Jacob’s sons; because they professed to be believers in my Visitation to thee, and have consulted together as much for thy destruction, as ever Jacob’s sons consulted Joseph’s; because thy destruction would be a much more fatal death to thee, than Joseph’s death could have been to him. And now I tell thee, if they go on as they have begun, they have sold thee, as Jacob’s sons sold Joseph; that meaneth, they have sold their faith and belief they had in thee; and, like Esau, they have sold their birthright for a mess of pottage; that meaneth, they have sold the birthright they were called to for the fair promises given to them of momentary honours and grandeur, that they are filled up with; for as pottage satisfieth a hungry stomach, perfectly so doth praise and applause satisfy those that are thirsting after it; and this is their delight for the present; but what will this avail them, when they miss the promised blessings of receiving MY SPIRIT


that I have promised to give my disciples, that are joined with thee, at thy awful Trial? When I take thee from hence, then I have promised, as the Spirit of Elijah fell upon Elisha, so shall my Spirit, that visits thee, fall on them: and yet I tell thee, this would but make a confusion amongst them, if it was on them already, before I have made every mystery clear, and all to come to thee, and through thee, for thou to stand the Trial for the whole. And now discern how Carpenter is going on to begin in the spirit and end in the flesh: therefore I tell thee, many are called, but few are chosen: and know the division amongst the believers, that Carpenter hath caused, though he professed to be a believer joined with the others, and preaching the doctrine of Man’s Redemption, yet he is splitting against the ROCK that brings your Redemption; because I tell thee, it is not any of the prophets that have arisen up in this age, wherein your redemption is pointed out; it must come from the Promise that was made to the Woman in the Fall; and by perfect obedience in the Woman that promise must be claimed; and whosoever splits against that promise, splits against the whole. For as the disobedience of Saul caused the kingdom to be rended from him; and the obedience of Abraham caused the promise to be made to him; then know all men, from disobedience came the Fall; and by true obedience comes the promise of your Redemption. Therefore Carpenter is gone from the very Rock he ought to build upon, to join with the Woman in her true obedience, as Adam did in his disobedience; and this is what he hath professed to be a believer in; but now is departed from the whole, through false prophets, that I said would arise, to deceive the very Elect, if possible; and now, I tell thee, without sincere repentance, they are deceived, though they professed to be elect members for my Kingdom; but if they fall away and do not return,


before the door is shut against them, they are fallen never to be restored.

"Here I have shewed thee, from Carpenter, how it is begun amongst the believers; and how the false prophets are risen up amongst them to deceive them.—But now I know thy pondering thoughts: thou sayest, if it were possible;—thou judgest it impossible. To thy thoughts I answer: they that are elect members, to be perfect in obedience to all my commands that are given through thee, from whence this Election came, they are the elect members who it is impossible should be deceived; because from Election they must look to the Spirit they were elected by; and without obedience they cannot be called true elect members; and by obedience they cannot fall. For now I tell thee this of Carpenter: had he obeyed my commands, given through thee, he never would have been deceived by Joseph; and know my command as to Dowland was for him to use him tenderly, and to leave the whole to be judged by thee; in printing the Book he was cleared; but was told not to rely on all he had heard from Dowland. Now had he done this, he would never have been deceived; and had he listened to thee, he would never have been deceived by Joseph; and at the last, had they obeyed, for Winter to come as I commanded, they would not have given Satan the advantage over them; thus by disobedience they drew off from their Election; and so they drew off from my Protection. So let all men mark the Words I said to thee—I will protect thee as long as I can; and the same I say unto all—as long as they obey, I can protect, and my honour is engaged to protect; but when they disobey, they rob me of Honour, and themselves of my Protection. Now I tell thee, it is hard for them to fight against the powers of darkness, who have got grounds over them by their disobeying my commands; and there must be tears of bitter repentance, if they ever return at all.—But here I


shall leave thee, as before, till thou hast heard from them again."

Here I shall insert a dream I had, Oct. 3, 1805. I dreamt I was at a house I knew not where; but I thought they said it was Mr. Brown’s; and all the goods and furniture were out of the house, except some blankets that laid piled up one upon the other, as if upon a bed in a room together. I thought some one said the man was ruined, and they must set all these things on fire, to prevent his utter ruin. I then thought some fire burst in the middle of the blankets and burnt till it consumed them; but I knew not why it was said, burning of them would prevent his utter ruin. To this simple dream I was answered—

"That thou mayest form no judgment of thy own, I brought a mystery to thy view of a house unknown, and the name of one that is dead, as it is known to thee that Brown is. Now I shall tell thee the mystery: as Brown is dead in the body, so is Carpenter dead in his faith; and as the furniture was out of the house, so is all the furniture gone from him; for he is gone from thee, like the bird that is flown; and from the warnings I gave him, by Dowland, concerning thee; so there is nothing remaining but their profession, which they keep up.

"So here the furniture is gone,
And empty hearts appear;
But now the mysteries are made known—
They falsely worship there.
In such disguise, before my eyes,
Satan hath room to come;
For mockery there must all appear,
To bring their ruin on;
If they go on as now they’ve done,
Their dresses let them see;
Deceitful clothing they put on,
With hearts all gone from ME.
So all may burn, if they’ll not turn
And hastily repent,
They’ll find the candlestick is gone,
And I the veil shall rend
From others’ eyes—let them grow wise;
For men will go the same,

* See Dowland’s Book, page 78


And so their furniture is gone;
I’ll put them all to shame.
So here’s the meaning of thy dream
That thou’st not understand;
For Satan strong doth work in them
To mock my every hand.
In he and thee, they plain may see,
His warnings they’ve forgot;
And so I say they’re gone from ME,
In garments they know not;
Shrouded for death to bring them forth,
If they go on this way;
The mockery there I shall not bear,
My anger soon they’ll see
Will rise and burn, and they may mourn,
When I unveil the whole;
For Pharaoh’s wonders will not do;
Their magic arts must fall.
So I’ll end here and say no more,
But further things thou’lt know,
Till every mystery I’ve made clear,
To prove their overthrow."

Thus far was written for the press of my dream, and the Communication that follows it, Nov. 30, 1805, when Mr. Sharp came with a letter he had received from Mr. Carpenter, in answer to a letter he was ordered to send him, as Mr. Carpenter said, in answer to Major Eyre’s letter,—"That I, and I only, had hold of Joanna’s left arm on Tuesday the 11th of Dec., 1804, in her return from the field to my house, I protest solemnly." He further adds to Major Eyre—"I consider it no crime in Joanna, because she mistakenly believes it; but I shudder for the consequences that must await those who can say it without knowing; some of whom must know the contrary. Can it be possible any can be so lost to justice, to honour, to the welfare of their families, to their immortal souls, and everlasting happiness, as to support falsehood in a case where they cannot be benefited even here, and can have no motive, but to please others, and hold them up in iniquity? This may appear a trivial matter, but it is one of the utmost importance for the cause; and alarming in the extreme in its consequences will it be found for those who are thus wilfully daring the vengeance of Heaven."


In answer to this letter I was told that Mr. Carpenter had written his own condemnation in every line; for he had lied unto God and man, in a thing that was of no consequence to him, had he not given the Spirit that directs me the lie, which was daringly presumptuous against the Lord; and that he should find to his shame and confusion, by the fulfilment of the Communication that was given me in answer to who led me out of the field; and who were the Rev. Mr. Foley, and Major Eyre, which never once slipped my memory, as it was a thing never forgotten by me; therefore I was ordered, as Mr. Carpenter had so boldly lied to God and man, to have Mr. Sharp to write to him, and demand who had my right hand when he had my left. Mr. Sharp obeyed the summons, and wrote him the following letter, in answer to the same assertion, which Mr. Carpenter made in a letter to him:

Sir, Nov. 28, 1805.

In reading over the latter part of your letter to me, dated Nov. 22, you mention these words, viz., "And that I had hold of Joanna’s left arm from the field to my house at the Trial." Now, sir, in order that I may know your real meaning, it is necessary to know what day of the Trial this alludes to; was it on Tuesday, Dec. 11, 1804, that you say you had hold of Joanna’s left arm and led her out of the field to your house? or was it after she came into your garden that you had hold of her left arm to the house? You are also requested to inform me, who it was that had hold of Joanna’s right arm at the very time you say you had hold of her left; and can you also declare what happened to Joanna at the gate coming from the field? It is further demanded of you to send the names of those witnesses to your assertions in this matter. I shall at present decline any further notice of the other parts of your


letter, to yourself, which may be hereafter answered to the public.

(Signed) W. SHARP.*

PS.—Every person who is desirous to have a character for to be a friend to truth, cannot be too exact; therefore you will not only mention the names of the witnesses, who saw you having hold of Joanna’s left arm, but where it was; and particularly the day, as my situation on the 11th prevents me being a witness, and makes me wish to hear from each party, that I may know the truth.

When this letter was sent to Mr. Carpenter, his own conscience condemned him; he could not tell what happened at the gate, as he was not near me when I came out of the field; neither could he tell who had my right arm when he had my left; because he had not my left arm at all, as Major Eyre went through with me to the house, after Mr. Foley left me in the garden. So as he could not answer, when clear matter of fact was demanded, he sent back an insolent lying letter, refusing to give any

* Many of the believers have come forward with their testimony of the manner of my coming from the field; and amongst the number Mr. Goldsmith sent a letter, with an account of what he saw, which agrees with all the rest; and the particulars he states thus: Myself, with Mr Nisbet, Mr. Stocks, and Mr. Jones, were stationed at the upper gate, when on a sudden we saw the mob break in at the bottom of the field. We then left our station, in order to render you what assistance we were able; and a storm coming on, at that instant I saw you coming from the platform, Mr. Foley having hold of your right arm. I instantly made towards the gate leading to the garden, that was opened for you, when looking round, saw a second time Mr. Foley, and Major Eyre, coming towards the gate, and you having hold of their arms; Mr. Foley with your right, and Major Eyre your left. After crowding some time you got in at the gate; I then saw your shoe down at heel, and said to Mr. Foley, Stop, let me pull my mother’s shoe up at heel; Mr. Foley then stepped forward to let me pull it up. I do most solemnly declare, that those two had still hold of your arms, and conducted you into Mr. Carpenter’s garden; and Major Eyre returned, and said, they had got you safe, and he was happy. I further recollect, that when you quitted the platform, I saw Mr. Carpenter standing still, singing a hymn, when you were near the first gate; therefore am as confident of the transaction as though it had been yesterday.


satisfactory answer to the letter that was sent. He begins his answer to Mr. Sharp, saying, "No wonder that you, whose prevarication laid the foundation-stone of the present division, should suspect others of it."

In this manner he waives the subject, and will give no satisfactory answer. This provoked me to anger and indignation, to hear a man so bold and confident in lies, to say Mr. Sharp laid the foundation of our division, which he had no more to do with than a child unborn; for Underwood and myself concealed from all my friends the division between Mr. Carpenter and me, from May till this last discord broke out; and then it was I, my own self told Mr. Sharp of his conduct, that I had before concealed. So no foundation of division between Mr. Carpenter and me was laid by Mr. Sharp; the foundation sprung from Joseph’s communications, and Mr. Carpenter’s giving mine the lie, to support the other. This was the corner-stone and the foundation of the whole; and this provoked me to anger, to think he should lay his own conduct upon an innocent man, who had nothing to do with our divisions, only believing the Spirit that leads me is of God, and the Spirit that leads Joseph is not: but in this, had Mr. Sharp believed like Mr. Carpenter, that Joseph was right, and I wrong; then Mr. Sharp and I should have parted, as Mr. Carpenter and I have done; and then his words would have been true, that he said to Underwood and me, when we were at his house in May. I will not be as presumptuous as he was; for he spoke the words as follows: he said, "God is not true if Sharp doth not turn your greatest enemy; and you will be removed out of the world on his account; and he will become a vagabond." This presumptuous speech I would not dare to imitate, to say that God was not true in any matter; because I believe God is a God of Truth, however wrongly judged by man. And yet I confess, Mr. Sharp must have turned my greatest enemy, if he had acted like Mr. Carpenter; because the whole of


my writings and every thing have been committed to Mr. Sharp’s care. So if he had acted deceitfully,  he might have kept back the whole. These words Mr. Sharp was ordered to write to Mr. Carpenter to know by what authority he made that assertion. He then evades the truth by saying, we blended a dream of Mrs. Adams and his opinion with Dowland’s communications. This abominable falsehood provoked me to anger; he spoke the words perfectly as they are penned; we heard nothing of Mrs. Adams’s dream; neither did he tell us on what grounds he built his assertion. To enumerate all the falsities that are in his letters would be waste of time, as I may have to enumerate them hereafter, when he publishes to the world, as he says he is going to do: but let him take care he doth not publish such lies to the world as he hath written to me and my friends. Nothing hath caused more discord and warmth with me, than the false insinuations and lies in his letters, concerning me and my friends. If it had only been about Joseph, we should have separated without this contention; for I should not think it right to confine any man’s faith; neither have I been warm against the believers that are fallen off. If they judge they have a truer prophet in Joseph, to Joseph let them look; but as for me and my friends, we cannot depend on one whose prophecies we never saw true; and all that I have seen of them hath been explained to me, that Mr. Carpenter will surely find them false, to his own shame and to his own confusion; because he hath trusted to lying wonders, that it is astonishing to me how any man can credit them. One thing in particular I shall mention: he sent a letter with a communication from Joseph, Oct. 14, enclosed to a friend of mine, for me; but as he had refused to send by the hand I was ordered to receive letters from him, I was ordered not to see the letter, or know the contents, till the letter was returned back, telling him, if he sent the letter to Mr. Tozer, as he was ordered, the letter should be answered to him;


but my friends were ordered to mark the contents, and let me know them after the letter was returned. So the contents of the letter they have now been ordered to pen, which were as follows, from Joseph:

"A might angel, even Christ himself,
Now descends from heaven
To intreat her—for his own dear sake
Forgive, as she hopes to be forgiven."

This letter being returned by my friend, and desiring him to send it the way he was directed through me, he thus returned my friend for answer:

"Sir, the letter I sent to Mrs. Southcott was in obedience to what I firmly believe a command from heaven; therefore how it is received is no part of my concern." But as much as he judged it a command from heaven, through Joseph, he refused the command, that was given through me, to send it as he was ordered; so I know not what the letter contained, only these few lines that astonished them all, which were given through Joseph; and to these lines I am answered by the Spirit—

"These are the things I warned of in my Gospel, of false Christs arising to deceive many; and now I tell thee, if Satan had not blinded their eyes, and hardened their hearts, they would see they were lying wonders; wonders that never came from a God—to come down from heaven and ask the forgiveness of his creatures. Oh, vain and simple men, to think I come to ask forgiveness for my sake! Unto whom was this forgiveness to be intreated for? But I know thy pondering thoughts: thou sayest in thy heart, he could not presumptuously mean that I came to intreat forgiveness for myself; he must mean I came to intreat thee to forgive them. This thou sayest must be their meaning; and to thy thoughts I shall answer: What then do they make of ME? A God without power, either as a father, or a master, that I should go to a man to make intercession for ME.


Hath not a master power over his servant? a father over his child? and have I not power to do the same? but must I resign my power to man, and stoop to them, as they suppose? And like their words hath been their conduct, for ME to stoop to man, and not man to ME; but they shall know I am thy master; and thou art my servant. If I say unto thee go, thou goest; if I say come, thou comest; if I say unto thee do this, thou doest it. In like manner I am thy father; and as a dutiful child obeyeth his parent, so in like manner thou obeyest ME in all things. So if I had wanted thee to forgive Carpenter, it was but for ME to speak the word unto thee, and I know thou wouldest obey whatsoever I commanded, without my stooping to man for him to intercede for ME; for as a master directs a servant, and a father his child, so have I directed thee in all things; and so I shall go on to direct thee. I do not want wisdom, I do not want power, to lay my commands and restraints upon thee; neither do I want the interference of man, to intreat thee to do what I cannot do myself, by laying my own commands. So here I tell thee, in this belief they have exalted the creature above the Creator, to say I should come down from heaven to them, for them to make intercession for ME. But let them discern how all my commands are obeyed by thee; then they would know Satan was the mighty angel, that came with mockery in my name, to make ME appear coming down to stoop to men, not having power enough myself to give my own command to thee, that thy anger should go no further, if it had been my will to put a stop to thy anger; but how shall I stop thy anger, when they are going on to provoke ME to anger and indignation against them? But thou sayest in thy heart, they do not allow they have done wrong against thee or ME; then whose forgiveness will they say I come down to ask and intreat her to forgive for my sake? Here thou sayest thou canst not tell what they mean by the words; but this I tell thee,


they were spoken by the devil in mockery against ME; and with the same mockery they are going on, thinking I am coming down to stoop to man, to set him up as my superior, having more power than I have myself; the power of heaven must be denied, if they believe the Son of God came down to intreat forgiveness from man or woman; or for them to make intercession for ME; and yet in this manner they are going on. And now discern from these words, which I tell thee came from the devil, and by his command they sent it to thee; but when I sent my command, that they should send it to thee by the hand I had commanded, he refused to send it that way; so let all men discern how ready they are to obey the commands of the devil; but every command of mine they have refused; but had they obeyed my command, to send it the way I ordered, I should have shewed them what blasphemy they believed, what lying wonders they had sent, to believe the Son of God came down from heaven; who once died for man, is now come down again to make intercession to man, to intreat him to make intercession for ME! Here is the blindness of man, not discerning the footsteps of Satan; and in this way he drowns their reason; for I shall place it to thee every way: if they allow my visitation to be to thee, and judge I had not power enough myself to direct and command thee, but must go to them to intreat for ME, then they must judge the power of the creature is above his Creator; but if they judge thou art going on under the influence of the devil, guided and directed by him, obeying his command in all things, what have I to do with thee, to intreat thy forgiveness, either for myself or man? Then it is thou that must be the transgressor, and intreat the forgiveness of God and man. This every man of sense must discern, how blindly they are going on by the devil: and of this they are willingly ignorant. Perfectly like the words sent to thee, by


Satan’s direction, so is all their conduct, judging a God must come down to stoop to men, filling themselves up with lying wonders, that never were nor ever will be. I ask thee on whom happiness depends? Is it on the power of God or man? In thy heart thou answerest in the Lord: then shall I come down to stoop to man? I tell thee, No; and he shall know I will not stoop to him; neither can he deceive ME; and yet without such men my Bible could not be fulfilled, to prove to all men the end is at hand; neither could thy Prophecies be fulfilled; for know, I have said, as the rebellion began in heaven with the angels above, so it would begin with men upon earth. But this likeness could not take place, if it did not begin with men that were united together to sign for my kingdom, as the angels in heaven were in my kingdom above. So these have signed for my kingdom below; and here is begun the rebellion and separation, the one part is joined with the woman to be their helpmate, as I designed her at first, to enjoy the kingdom prepared for man before the foundation of the world was laid; and know the Promise that was made to the woman. So here is one part joined with the woman in my decrees, that I pronounced from first to last, while the other is gone from my decrees, as the angels in heaven did—

"So here I say the war’s begun,
And so I say it will go on,
Until the ending all will see,
The way the angels fell from ME.
And so they’ll see the fall of man,
For to go on as they’ve begun,
Until their falling all will see,
The way that men will fall from ME.
For with the woman they’ll not join,
Where Satan strong their hearts can bind;
For in rebellion, like the first,
Against their Maker men do burst;
Because it was my just decree
To bring my kingdom in this way,
As I did promise at the first;
And so the ending I have placed;
But as the Serpent did begin,
I say, at first, he is going on


To bring the Fall of Man the same,
As he the angels did inflame,
Proudly to swell against their God,
And so these paths he’th always trod,
I say, to swell in men the same,
Their hearts with pride to set on flame,
They may not stoop unto my will;
But I their stubborn hearts shall chill—
If they don’t hasty now repent,
For so they’ll find my mind is bent;
For deep’s the shadow that’s begun;
The mystery no one doth discern,
Before I make the mysteries clear,
And then the shadows will appear."

The remainder of this Communication will appear hereafter, as it is too long for this book; and I wish the readers to understand that all these Communications, as far as the explanation of my dream, have been read to many witnesses at the times they were given, as the dates are put to them; and all collected together with many others; and as many of them as time would permit read to the judges and jury, that they might be clear in judging the truth of the words—that I was led on by the same spirit as when all my former Communications had been given. This was done that all might be clear before they signed their names, to be united with me in obedience, according to the commands given through me. As this book will not contain sufficient information to give a clear understanding to the readers concerning this meeting, and their answers, I shall continue it in another book, that all may be able to judge for themselves between Mr. Carpenter and me, his friends and mine. And in what manner they mock the obedience of my friends, I was answered—"Carpenter and his friends are the perfect likeness of Pharaoh’s magicians and Moses: and know, there were many likenesses wrought by Pharaoh’s magicians as I wrought by Moses; but it was the end that discovered whose working was from the Lord. And now mark what I have told thee, and what I have compared the end to, of Satan’s destruction, and his followers, to Pharaoh and his followers;


and now to show the perfect likeness, Satan hath begun to work in man, with all his magic arts as he did in Pharaoh’s magicians. But know I have told thee, I am the true Moses that visits thee; that meaneth, my Spirit that visited Moses, when I sent him to deliver the children of Israel, and freed them from their bondage, AM now come to visit thee, to free men of the bondage of the Fall. So now is the time for men to see who is the TRUE MOSES and who are Pharaoh’s workers."

So now time will make it clear, who is the true prophet, Joseph or me; but I never saw a true prophecy from Joseph in my life; yet if Mr. Carpenter hath any prophecies by him of Joseph, that will justify his conduct, I now say he doth no justice to himself, if he doth not bring them forth. In a cause like this, it is every one’s duty to try and prove the spirits, whether they be of God or not, to bring the teaching forward to the world, to prove from the truth that we have grounds to believe the visitation is from the Lord. So no longer let Mr. Carpenter say, Joseph is visited by the Lord, if he be ashamed to have his works appear. I have assigned my reasons to the public, why I have done all I have done, to justify myself; and now I wish him to do the same, if he can justify himself, from any true prophecies that he can depend on, to act as he hath, to forsake me, and trust to Joseph.

To be continued in PART V* with further Communications respecting MR. CARPENTER and the Nation.

* Book 42

____________ o0o ____________

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Last updated 4thDecember 2009